JLA/Avengers Krona Vs Abraxas

Krona stomps.

krona probably destoryed more than just 2 universes:
In JLA #111 it was stated that krona destroyed many universes (obviously many doesn't indicate that it was just 2)

here's the scan:

^^ That scenario applies to Post-retcon Krona.

The Krona from JLA/Avengers destroyed/absorbed only Two realities.
(one universe from DC and one from Marvel)

Anything added/subtracted to Krona's history afterwards has nothing
to do with the character designated for the two-company cross-over.

Originally posted by Mr Master
DC's version of "entropy" is "UN-like" ... yes I agree.

But, how was Krona defeated again?

And, how was Abraxas defeated?

Krona was 'beaten' when he jumped straight into the energy backlash generated by all 12 of his items of power run amuck-- ultimately reverting him into a cosmic egg:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15892952/4.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15892953/5.jpg.html
ie. UN+CCU+IG+GL Battery+Spear of Destiny+etc. etc. etc. >> Krona.

Abraxas was destroyed by nullification/entropy.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ That scenario applies to Post-retcon Krona.

The Krona from JLA/Avengers destroyed/absorbed only Two realities.
(one universe from DC and one from Marvel)

Anything added/subtracted to Krona's history afterwards has nothing
to do with the character designated for the two-company cross-over.

"Months ago, the League battled extradimensional incursion and the reality warping threat of the mad Guardian Krona.":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15892955/Untitled-Scanned-02.jpg.html

The JLA have a gander at the Krona-egg:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15892957/Untitled-Scanned-05.jpg.html

Additionally, the CSA were able to ascertain knowledge that their universe(the anti-matter universe) had been destroyed by Krona only months prior:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15892956/Untitled-Scanned-03.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15893298/Untitled-Scanned-04.jpg.html

And as you recall, the AMU was among the universes we saw Krona destroy during the crossover itself:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15893295/ja-01-04.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15893297/ja-01-05.jpg.html

The events of JLA/Avengers was also recalled during a more recent retelling of Krona's origin:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15892949/1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15892950/2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15892951/3.jpg.html

So yeah, the events of JLA/Avengers was never retconned in DC. The scan operator616 posted is merely DC's [albeit ambiguous] way of informing readers as to the full extent of damage caused by Krona:

And imo, the above statement coincides with the summary page from JLA/Avengers #3: "Krona's investigations tear apart the fabric of universes, destroying them... Krona wanders the multiverse, leaving destruction in his path.":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15893330/avgrsjla-03-01.jpg.html

The separate statements: "multiversal destruction" and "many universes" imply that Krona had destroyed far more than a scant two universes. However, I won't argue for him destroying more than two universes, because we didn't see it happen on panel. Either way, he's still empowered by entropy/nullification, AND possesses the power of no less than two complete universes.

Originally posted by Galan007

Cool beans. I only brought it up because Krona literally
embodies entropy/nullification, and has used it to erase entire universes.

Krona was 'beaten' when he jumped straight into the energy
backlash generated by all 12 of his items of power run amuck--
ultimately reverting him into a cosmic egg:

ie. UN+CCU+IG+GL Battery+Spear of Destiny+etc. etc. etc. >> Krona.

Abraxas was destroyed by nullification/entropy.

That aside, I know how Krona was defeated,
I'd like to say great it took the UN and IG plus other comedy to stop him,
but the thing is, nor the UN or IG were the "real" UN or IG in that story.
Because the IG alone could've accomplished what Krona couldn't,
which was to bound Eternity and Kismet.
Which is nothing to the Multiversal Space-Time Continuum that feared
and could do nothing against Abraxas.

Just sayin ...

In JLA/Avengers Eternity/Kismet share the Same Multiverse. 😐

Originally posted by Galan007

The events of JLA/Avengers was never retconned in DC. This
fact was made clear shortly after the crossover ended.
"Months ago, the League battled extradimensional
incursion and the reality warping threat of the mad Guardian
Krona.":
The JLA have a gander at the Krona-egg:
Additionally, the CSA were able to ascertain knowledge that their
universe(the anti-matter universe) had been destroyed by Krona
only months prior:
And as you recall, the AMU was among the universes we saw Krona
destroy during the crossover itself:
The events of JLA/Avengers was also recalled during a more recent
retelling of Krona's origin:
So yeah, the events of JLA/Avengers was never retconned in DC.
The scan operator616 posted is merely DC's [albeit ambiguous]
way of informing readers as to the full extent of damage caused by Krona:

And imo, the above statement coincides with the summary page
from JLA/Avengers #3: "Krona's investigations tear apart the
fabric of universes, destroying them... Krona wanders the
multiverse, leaving destruction in his path.":

The separate statements: "multiversal destruction" and "many
universes" imply that Krona had destroyed far more than a scant
two universes. However, I won't argue for him destroying more
than two universes, because we didn't see it happen on panel.
Either way, he's still empowered by entropy/nullification, AND
possesses the power of no less than two complete universes.

I also disagree the "multiversal destruction" line which actually reads:
"Krona wanders the multiverse, leaving destruction in his path"
suggests destruction across the multiverse shared by DC/Marvel.
It's literally referring to the Two universes that were destroyed.

Cause like we both know and agree, that's all that was shown,
and directly referenced in other inside Cover pages.

btw. I hate this cross-over, so I don't mind slipping away from this debate. 😛

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool. Abraxas was banished by remaking the Multiverse though,
and he was Never destroyed.
It's either that, or the Multiverse was remade by banishing Abraxas.

Or in layman's terms: "In order to fix the damage Abraxas caused, we had to destroy all reality." As you know, nullification is nullification-- all that changes is scope, not power. Point: Reed could have nullified Abraxas alone, but nullifying just Abraxas would not have fixed the damage he caused to the rest of reality... That's why the scope of nullification had to be changed to a grander scale.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That aside, I know how Krona was defeated,
I'd like to say great it took the UN and IG plus other comedy to stop him,
but the thing is, nor the UN or IG were the "real" UN or IG in that story.
Because the IG alone could've accomplished what Krona couldn't,
which was to bound Eternity and Kismet.
Which is nothing to the Multiversal Space-Time Continuum that feared
and could do nothing against Abraxas.

On a more serious note, my only point is that Krona=entropy=nullification... And nullification>Abraxas. /shrug

Originally posted by Mr Master
btw. I hate this cross-over, so I don't mind slipping away from this debate. 😛

Gay El Gay/Avengers beat Grandmaster with the IG...

^^ El Gay also needed the IG + UN and 10 other uber joints,
to bound an Eternity and its counterpart.
While the IG alone stomped prime Eternity in one move. 😂 😐 😛

Originally posted by Galan007

Somewhat disagree here. The multiverse wasn't destroyed to
defeat Abraxas himself. Reed flat-out told us why he destroyed it:

Reed: "In order to realign all that is, we needed to end all that was."

Or in layman's terms: "In order to fix the damage Abraxas caused,
we had to destroy all reality." As you know, nullification is
nullification-- all that changes is scope, not power. Point: Reed
could have nullified Abraxas alone, but nullifying just Abraxas would
not have fixed the damage he caused to the rest of reality... That's
why the scope of nullification had to be changed to a grander scale.

Abraxas, and Abraxas alone was the cause behind multiversal upheaval,
nullify him, (rather banish him) and all his actions are undone.
Big G stays resurrected because if Abraxas is back withIN Eternity/Infinity,
then G never died.

Just sayin friend, according to the UN's actual capabilities and bio,
this is what it does, and only should do. This is actually sensible
considering the circumstances: Like Reed got nullified so how did he
press the button on "nothingness" to get "creation" back? On Panel
this is the manner it was described to remake Eternity once
nullified. The UN Handbook also states Reed hit Abraxas and
this caused reality to get fixed. (this suggests my view is very much viable)

Nevertheless,
either stance puts the UN remaking the Multiverse directly
or inadvertently via defeating the most powerful Concept after the LT.
(excluding Concepts: Eulogy and Expediency, which are aspects of TOAA)

Originally posted by Galan007

👆

Originally posted by Mr Master
We've had this debate before. It can go either way.

Abraxas, and Abraxas alone was the cause behind multiversal upheaval,
nullify him, (rather banish him) and all his actions are undone.
Big G stays resurrected because if Abraxas is back withIN Eternity/Infinity,
then G never died.

Just sayin friend, according to the UN's actual capabilities and bio,
this is what it does, and only should do. This is actually sensible
considering the circumstances: Like Reed got nullified so how did he
press the button on "nothingness" to get "creation" back? On Panel
this is the manner it was described to remake Eternity once
nullified. The UN Handbook also states Reed hit Abraxas and
this caused reality to get fixed. (this suggests my view is very much viable)

Nevertheless,
either stance puts the UN remaking the Multiverse directly
or inadvertently via defeating the most powerful Concept after the LT.
(excluding Concepts: Eulogy and Expediency, which are aspects of TOAA)

^^ Imo, both perspectives are feasible. (both backed by bios)

As for nullification ... I agree. But as far as we know,
it has to be nullifying energies that can erase not only matter,
but space-time (the abstract) as well.

(eg. just cause character x can erase Hulk doesn't mean he stomps Abraxas)

Absolutely. That's why I keep mentioning entropy on Krona's behalf-- it can(and has) erased time, space, matter, energy... And even conceptual beings, like Death. If used against Abraxas, it would destroy/erase him, just like nullification did.