He-Man vs Kratos (scenarios)
vs.
1. They get all their equipment ever. Strength/Speed is equalized.
2. They get all their equipment ever. Natural strength and speed.
3. Standard equipment for both(assume GoW3 Kratos). Strength/Speed is equalized.
4. Standard equipment for both(again GoW3 Kratos). Natural strength and speed.
I like He-Man, but I don't know much about him. Trying to learn more by gauging him against a character I know very well.
With the items, weaps and abilities Kratos should win all the equalized fights, not seeing personal skill being a large factor giving He-Man a chance.
Now if the strength/durability thing is correct then speed and reactions will be important. Not sure what He-Mans bringing, but even with any reaction feat given t oKratos', he's not a speed blitzing character. Whoever strikes the first heavy blow wins :T
Curious to see what He-Man is capable of.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Durability maybe, doesn't need speed feats though.
He does need speed feats.
Being a 'speed blitzing' character, what do you even mean in practical terms there? When you have true speed, its not yourself that you see as fast, but other things that you see as going slow.
If He-Man is fast enough to react, then he's fast enough to react. If he's not fast enough to react to a blow, that's the same as being blitzed.
Unless you're saying Kratos would willingly hold back against an armed opponent--which is not in his character to do so. He'll simply strike at the speed he deems to be appropriate--which is invariably a non-holding back one.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
He does need speed feats.Being a 'speed blitzing' character, what do you even mean in practical terms there? When you have true speed, its not yourself that you see as fast, but other things that you see as going slow.
If He-Man is fast enough to react, then he's fast enough to react. If he's not fast enough to react to a blow, that's the same as being blitzed.
Unless you're saying Kratos would willingly hold back against an armed opponent--which is not in his character to do so. He'll simply strike at the speed he deems to be appropriate--which is invariably a non-holding back one.
Defensivly, perhaps. Though iirc the speed argument for Kratos was reactions only, and if so does he/would he break out these levels of speed when faced against a non speedster? He's akways used the same rank of speed besides those reaction feats.
^There is no such thing as a reaction only speed, in normal non-specific magic related terms.
It makes no sense, and its something I came to the conclusion of not too long ago.
How the heck can someone, for example, be stated to be a lightning timer or some such, yet can't even frigging run faster than peak human speed? Such is commonly stated for characters like Link. Even worse, how can characters like Thanos be claimed as having FTL reflexes yet their actual running speed would be something Captain America could deal with?
Do these guys magically have arms that move thousands to millions of times faster than their legs? How ludicrous an idea is that? So that has to mean that in a time dilation event for say Link, where lightning time is considered normal time for him, his arms would move at normal speed while his legs would seem to be frozen dead in place? So such a character's legs are assumed to be useless in a fight, or such a character perceives their own running speed to be so slow as to seem like they aren't moving at all. Yet we know that is not the case.
I acknowledged the same thing for Kratos as well, as to not be a hypocrite, but as of Ascension I've less reason to do so, as he has two outright speed feats there (one including fighting under time dilation), whereas he had few concrete speed feats before that game.
About the only thing I'll acknowledge for a 'reaction only' speed level are bullet timers. Cloud can bullet time, yet the guy apparently runs slow enough to need a motorcycle. The only reason I'm ok with that is because its too common a trope to outright ignore.
Its fine for everyone besides bullet timers because its a trope?
Wouldn't the amount of times we see characters reacting speeds we know they can't physically replicate govern a 'trope' protection as well?
Especially when characters like Kratos and Link have never shown any physical speed feats that even come close.. hell these two have shown nothing but peak-low superhuman movement/attack speed. (Besides the two things that may have gone down in Ascension, of course)
Bullet Timing Reaction speed + immensely slower running speed is far more common. Far more.
Bullet Timing is an actual trope thanks to the Matrix.
No, guys like Thor, and Thanos, cannot be given a reaction speed millions of times greater than their actual speed. We just have to realize that these are just fan based assumptions, and never explicitly told to us. These guys were never intended to be speedsters, and fans of theirs know that, but they want a taste of the pie even if they are never offered it, and thus try to use the inane 'reaction speed' card to give them solace. At the very least, KMC's Comic Vs. more or less understands that. Few people there will laud Thor or Thanos' speed, as these are guys whom peak humans regularly contend with speed wise.
And how is that different from any other reactions + immensely slower running speed?
..Isnt putting any kind of numbers on characters fan based only? And the Thor/Thanos point raises more questions as Kratos and Link would be just like them; having reaction feats far above their speed and not intending to be speedsters. Not really sure where you've gone with that.
What do you mean how is it different? Compared to what?
Anything above the bullet timing level where your supposed reaction time feats are orders upon orders of magnitude greater than any shown running speed is bullshit.
That goes for Link (who has no confirmed lightning timing anyway), Thor, Thanos, and anyone else that fits. Truth be told, I can't even think of any concrete reaction feats for Thor that would imply lightspeed+ anyway. The best way to judge someone's speed is by how they do in practical uses of it. In which Thor's case he has a concretely stated punching speed of a microsecond, and one time he built a small tower from scratch by hand, in maybe a minute. Both are very old feats however.
The only other time I would even allow it is if the author blatantly states someone 'reacts at X speed but moves at Y speed' (in which Y speed is immensely slower). I'd call the author an idiot, to be sure, but at least it would'nt simply be a fan assumption anymore that the relationship is thus.
Having reactions over 34x your movement speed is a great magnitude already.. and its accepted just like that because it happens a lot?
Must behaving a bad-read day.. what exactly is your verdict on those 3? Are you saying they'd have lightning/FTL overall speed or that their reactions don't mean much.