Originally posted by Odekahn
I just think Kahn has the edge in shooting. His accuracy seemed better, and he's much more intelligent. I don't think it would be a quick fight, and that would give Kahn long enough to figure out a way to beat cap. Intelligence > Might.
I wasn't aware that Cap ever missed and as this is a gun fight I really don't see how Khan being smarter is going to help.
Originally posted by KingD19
How can anyone who saw Captain America and The Avengers think Khan can take Captain America in strength and h2h?
Although I agree that Cap is stronger, I actually believe that Khan is a better h2h fighter. You have to remember that Cap didn't exactly have extensive fight training, or at least if he did then it was for a very brief period of time.
Khan on the other hand seems to have grown up as a fighter, trained both mentally and physically. We also have to consider that Khan is a lot more brutal, and wouldn't hesitate to break Cap's bones and play dirty.
So....
1. Strength - Cap
2. H2H - Khan
3. Guns - could go either way, depends I guess on who hits first, but I'm leaning a bit towards Khan here. Khan has the bigger gun, but then it showed he could get knocked out by a small gun. Still, that big gun of his was destroying everything it hit and he was standing in the middle of dozens of Klingons without getting hit. Cap had trouble in a firefight with a single guy on the hellicarrier.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Although I agree that Cap is stronger, I actually believe that Khan is a better h2h fighter. You have to remember that Cap didn't exactly have extensive fight training, or at least if he did then it was for a very brief period of time.Khan on the other hand seems to have grown up as a fighter, trained both mentally and physically. We also have to consider that Khan is a lot more brutal, and wouldn't hesitate to break Cap's bones and play dirty.
So....
1. Strength - Cap
2. H2H - Khan
3. Guns - could go either way, depends I guess on who hits first, but I'm leaning a bit towards Khan here. Khan has the bigger gun, but then it showed he could get knocked out by a small gun. Still, that big gun of his was destroying everything it hit and he was standing in the middle of dozens of Klingons without getting hit. Cap had trouble in a firefight with a single guy on the hellicarrier.
Cap took hits from guys that dented steel and Loki without having any bones broken.
Also, I gave them both the energy rifles from Avengers, so I'm not sure where you got the idea that Khan's rifle was more powerful.
Originally posted by Silent Master
He seemed to mind them well enough to spot and take out a hidden sniper.
I know cap is an excellent fighter and strategist, I just meant that intelligence > uncontrolled passion is a lesson learned from batman begins.
Kahn is more intelligent than cap is. That's going to make a huge difference.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Cap took hits from guys that dented steel and Loki without having any bones broken.Also, I gave them both the energy rifles from Avengers, so I'm not sure where you got the idea that Khan's rifle was more powerful.
Oh sorry, I missed that part about the guns. In any case, Khan still wins in a gun fight. Like I said, he was standing in the open against a dozen or so Klingons and wasn't getting hit. Cap had trouble with one soldier in the hellicarrier.
Good point about Cap taking hits from Loki. Guess Khan won't be breaking his bones then. Still believe Khan's the better h2h fighter though. Cap didn't exactly get extensive h2h training whereas Khan seems to have been raised as a fighter, both mentally and physically.
Originally posted by Odekahn
I know cap is an excellent fighter and strategist, I just meant that intelligence > uncontrolled passion is a lesson learned from batman begins.Kahn is more intelligent than cap is. That's going to make a huge difference.
Not in a gun fight.
Also, as far as being brutal goes, in the scene where Cap is giving orders to the cops, he cuts off the arm of one of the attacking aliens.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Oh sorry, I missed that part about the guns. In any case, Khan still wins in a gun fight. Like I said, he was standing in the open against a dozen or so Klingons and wasn't getting hit. Cap had trouble with one soldier in the hellicarrier.Good point about Cap taking hits from Loki. Guess Khan won't be breaking his bones then. Still believe Khan's the better h2h fighter though. Cap didn't exactly get extensive h2h training whereas Khan seems to have been raised as a fighter, both mentally and physically.
Him not being hit while standing in the open is proof that the Klingon's have bad aim, not that he's untouchable.
We saw Cap take on and beat groups of people/aliens several times, does Khan have any feats of beating groups of people in HTH?
Originally posted by Silent Master
Him not being hit while standing in the open is proof that the Klingon's have bad aim, not that he's untouchable.We saw Cap take on and beat groups of people/aliens several times, does Khan have any feats of beating groups of people in HTH?
Whether you blame the Klingon's aim or attribute it to Khan's skill in evasive maneuvers in a firefight, it's still a far better feat than any gun fighting feat that Cap has. Unless you can cite an example where Cap was outnumbered, out in the open, no shield to hide behind, and still exterminated his enemies. Lets face it, Cap's main weapon is a shield. Khan's main weapon is a gun. If it was a melee fight with melee weapons I'd give the advantage to Cap. A gun fight, and I give the advantage to Khan. Besides, the Chitauri and Hydra soldiers had just as bad (if not worse) aim than the Klingons.
As for fighting multiple opponents, again Khan beat up a bunch of klingons in h2h, klingons who are a lot stronger than humans. Cap beat up humans in hydra gear and chitauri, and basing from how easily Hawkeye and BW were taking out chitauri I don't believe they're really that much stronger than humans.
Khan also took on a skilled opponent (Spock) who has about 3x the strength of a human. Khan beat the sh!t out of Spock. The only skilled opponents Cap took on was Red Skull - whom he barely defeated, and Loki - whom he lost against.
Khan just has better feats for h2h and gun fights. Cap has better strength feats. Then again, Khan did overpower Klingons and a Vulcan, so that gives us a pretty good strength feat. And he allowed Kirk to pummel him as much as he wanted and he didn't even flinch. Yeah, Cap's not beating him in a fight.
Except Khan's HTH feats aren't better, neither the Klingon's or Spock have any impressive HTH feats so they are in the same boat as Hydra and the aliens. Not that it matters as Cap has a rather large durability advantage. that combined with his strength advantage means he'd win a HTh fight.
As for guns, both of them have shown the ability to hit their targets, however Cap is durable enough that it'll take more than one shot. so Khan can win, but he's got no margin for error.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Except Khan's HTH feats aren't better, neither the Klingon's or Spock have any impressive HTH feats so they are in the same boat as Hydra and the aliens. Not that it matters as Cap has a rather large durability advantage. that combined with his strength advantage means he'd win a HTh fight.As for guns, both of them have shown the ability to hit their targets, however Cap is durable enough that it'll take more than one shot. so Khan can win, but he's got no margin for error.
I can agree with that.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Except Khan's HTH feats aren't better, neither the Klingon's or Spock have any impressive HTH feats so they are in the same boat as Hydra and the aliens. Not that it matters as Cap has a rather large durability advantage. that combined with his strength advantage means he'd win a HTh fight.As for guns, both of them have shown the ability to hit their targets, however Cap is durable enough that it'll take more than one shot. so Khan can win, but he's got no margin for error.
I'm sorry, but how exactly are Khan's h2h feats not better? Vulcans are about 3x stronger than humans and Klingons are even stronger than Vulcans. So taking on multiple Klingons IS a better feat than taking on multiple hydra (humans) or chitauri (as strong as humans). Vulcans are also trained in their ancient martial arts. Spock was a known h2h expert. How is beating up Spock not a good h2h feat? What exactly has Cap done that makes you think he has better feats than this? Cap beat up a bunch of Hydra and Chitauri, both weaker than Klingons and Vulcans. Cap barely beat Red Skull and he lost to Loki.
As for guns, the guy who gets the first hit wins. Cap can maybe survive getting hit once but he's going to get knocked down by that shot and will take time to get up (no Thor to help him out this time). Khan can then just keep shooting him till he's dead. It will boil down to who hits who first, and in this case, Khan has proven himself to be harder to hit. If you disagree, please give me an instance where Cap has shown to be harder to hit WITHOUT a shield.
Originally posted by Silent Master
What feats of strength and durability did NuSpock or those Klingons have?
So you're planning to completely disregard everything that has been proven in previous Star Trek movies? When talking in the movie vs. forum, I'm assuming that all movies of a particular character are taken into account as long as they're in the same continuity. In this case, the feats of Spock and Klingons from other Star Trek movies count.
And before you redirect me with another question, how bout you first provide proof or at least a reason why you believe that a.) Cap is a superior fighter and b.) Cap being a better gunslinger.