Originally posted by curryman
Honestly, I don't think J'onn has that great of a powerset...
Vast Super human strength, super speed, invulnerability, martian vision, martian senses, intangibility, high level telepathy and complete control over his molecular structure. I'm probably missing a few.
How is that not great? Only person who can compete is Surfer and that is simply because of how big a plot device the power cosmic is.
Originally posted by zeelThey would all get 9/10. Superman has to go toe to toe with them, excuses like him flying away from them or not being able to be hit is just that, an excuse to give him the win, let him engage the slower ones and watch him get destroyed, the faster ones will have no problem whatsoever tagging and wrecking him, some will beat him to death, some will blast him to death and a few will blast and beat him to death. Speed has never gotten in the writers way, so it wont get in the way here.
everyone listed here could mabey pull a win or 2 off, however the only ones able to consistently pull off at least a win 50% of the time or more are thor and surfer.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Vast Super human strength, super speed, invulnerability, martian vision, martian senses, intangibility, high level telepathy and complete control over his molecular structure. I'm probably missing a few.How is that not great? Only person who can compete is Surfer and that is simply because of how big a plot device the power cosmic is.
Only person who can compete?
You forget every other character in the herald category besides the bricks.
Originally posted by JBL
The same way grundy, hercules and wonderman hit him.
Someone's gonna bring him down for them? I see.
Shouldn't waste your time.
Originally posted by currymanno u.
Only person who can compete?You forget every other character in the herald category besides the bricks.
But yes I was glorifying Jonn too much. His powerset is still really solid. Physicality, intangibility and telepathy to boot is a deadly combo. If only he always fought/operated at full capacity/potential. He is been getting some love lately.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
But yes I was glorifying Jonn too much. His powerset is still really solid. Physicality, intangibility and telepathy to boot is a deadly combo. If only he always fought/operated at full capacity/potential. He is been getting some love lately.
I also think it's a really powerful combination, but it's his degree of bodily malleability, intangibility and telepathy that makes him strong.
I'm just debating the idea that his powerset is that special. Once you get into comics to the degree that most people around board do, then it's not that hard to find a hundred other people with more powers at their disposal 😛
Originally posted by currymanAnd they hardly ever use these powers.
I also think it's a really powerful combination, but it's his degree of bodily malleability, intangibility and telepathy that makes him strong.I'm just debating the idea that his powerset is that special. Once you get into comics to the degree that most people around board do, then it's not that hard to find a hundred other people with more powers at their disposal 😛
At least Jonn uses most of his powers.
Originally posted by carver9I see. Its strange that when it comes to superman, hes the only flying speedster that cannot be hit when it suits the purpose of his protective fans. All other flying speedsters get hit by ground based characters, yet superman is special in their eyes and it seems to offend if he is said to lose or able to be hit.
Hes debating in a CIS free environment. Making his character fight in a fashion comics doesn't display them as fighting like. His characters are make believe characters.
Fair enough.
I'm just curious about the whole "they will argue Superman won't get hit while other flying speedsters will" I've been here long enough and I haven't seen anything like that. Usually people who believe that characters with vast speed advantages over others will prevail, they stand behind that. No matter if its Hulk vs WW or Captain Marvel vs Thor. Superman's case is simply stronger because he has substantially more showings using his speed in combat, efficient ways, and traveling than most other non-speedster centric characters.
Originally posted by beatboks
@abhilegend your last statement clears it up for me. OP says who "can" not who " would" beat superman for a majority. most of those I listed ( except Fate, Strange and at a stretch Surfer) wouldn't beat superman, but written properly all certainly "can" take the majority
Originally posted by beatboks
in JLA Ray a couple of years later and in JLTF Ray was shown to be "vastly" superior to MMH who Superman has referred to as his equal or very close too on dozens of occasions. one instance against many and the many are more recent. So what.
Originally posted by abhilegend
What does "written properly" actually means?
Not properly in the sense it might imply as "true to the character" but as in the proper and FULL use of their abilities unfettered.
If they were written to take full advantage of their powerset's without their normal character restraints. I find it interesting that Arthur Light can manipulate the light constructs of Green Lanterns and has also manipulated the light projections of the Ray ( who based on showings has vastly more light power and control ) yet it's never dawned on him to drain the sunlight stored in Superman's cells ( which is pretty common knowledge after all). Silver Surfer like wise is capable of that but in character wouldn't act that way. Hence why he "wouldn't" but "could" IMO win the majority. The full "potential" power of Mar-Vell was shown by his son Genis which is well above "Herald" level power, but Walter is never likely to use it to that level.
As I said I'm only answering the question of who can.
I only recall a single instance of Ray being called superior to manhunter. I can post at least a dozen scans of superman being vastly superior to J'onn in combat and not just lip-service.
there was the JLA story where the dimensional entity who had made MMH Bloodwynde needed the JLA's "most powerful member " (Ray) to free it. there were a few more in JLTF. Once where Vandal Savage refers to his power output as greater than MMH and others. There was also the fact that one of Ray's energy constructs with only a portion of his power ( Black Masque) and a personality from Ray's programming soloed most of the JLTF including MMH.
Originally posted by beatboksI find it interesting that Arthur Light can manipulate the light constructs of Green Lanterns and has also manipulated the light projections of the Ray yet it's never dawned on him to drain the sunlight stored in Superman's cells ...
Are you sure he hasn't? Unfortunately, I don't have the magazine this is taken from, presumably Justice League of America, during the run of Dwayne McDuffie, circa 2008 or thereabouts, but Light sure does DROP Clark easy enough ...