ROTJ Vader vs. Galen Marek.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You argued Vader could have destroyed him with his powers.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I think Sidious is powerful, but to say he'd defeat Starkiller everytime is a stretch. I'd even go up to 8.5, but no farther. He's not THAT much above Starkiller.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The quicktime events are also canon.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dude, how is a scream less impressive than TK?

If it was as impressive as telekinesis, there's no way Kenobi could've matched Anakin's in their force-push-contest.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I never did, I pointed out Luke musing that he could.

Luke was wrong.

He is. Skill? Starkiller struggles with featless Jedi. Sidious is in Yoda's tier. Speed? Starkiller fought at speed-pararity with Shaak Ti. Sidious is far faster than Maul whose speed feats are more impressive than Ti's. Powers? Starkiller was ultimately no match for Sidious (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia).

Featless?
Kazdan Paratus could control a droid army with his TK, Shaak Ti on Felucia with the Saarlac could trounce any Jedi from the PT who's name isn't Yoda or Mace Windu. Rahm Kota isn't exactly anything to sneeze at either in his own class.

Maul is not faster than Shaak Ti, who was noted in the old databank for her speed.

Does it have anything to do with the fights?

Yes Starkiller molests Vader with his saber and force powers. Hence the image I posted.

Scream is another power, one I've yet to see used in combat against force-wielders.

If it can be used to rip down a cathedral, I don't see why it couldn't be used in combat.

If it was as impressive as telekinesis, there's no way Kenobi could've matched Anakin's in their force-push-contest.

Obviously a low end showing considering a few hours before that he was ripping down enormous building sized statues. And if anything that counts as a feat for Kenobi, not against Skywalker.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Luke was wrong.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Kazdan Paratus could control a droid army with his TK,

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Shaak Ti on Felucia with the Saarlac could trounce any Jedi from the PT who's name isn't Yoda or Mace Windu.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Rahm Kota isn't exactly anything to sneeze at either in his own class.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Maul is not faster than Shaak Ti, who was noted in the old databank for her speed.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yes Starkiller molests Vader with his saber and force powers. Hence the image I posted.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
If it can be used to rip down a cathedral, I don't see why it couldn't be used in combat.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Obviously a low end showing considering a few hours before that he was ripping down enormous building sized statues. And if anything that counts as a feat for Kenobi, not against Skywalker.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He has done absolutely nothing that indicates he's as good as Fisto who, with the help of Mace, was cut down extremely easily.

YouTube video

1.25?

That has nothing to do with lightsaber skill, a contest in which Starkiller struggled.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Prove it.

You already did with your statements that they were equal. From the excerpts my fellow posters have listed from the novel, it seems to be of the notion that Vader was actually getting bested.

They were simple mannequins, moving one at a time, occasionally two at a time.

I'm not quite sure about that one.

lol

Shaak Ti as of ROTS is considered one of the greatest swordmasters in the order, mentioned in the same breath as Dooku for her elegance in Makashi.

In TFU, with her Saarlac pet, I have no doubt she could trounce Kenobi, who is really the only person I could see besting her sans Anakin, who'd actually likely pull a victory against her.

He has done absolutely nothing that indicates he's as good as Fisto who, with the help of Mace, was cut down extremely easily.

Shaak Ti is stated to be a swordsmaster. I'd gamble she's above Fisto.

Being noted for her speed is all good and well, but she has done absolutely nothing that overcomes Maul's showings in his journal.

Could you link me to a video in which action of said picture happens?

Look it up yourself. It's the final scene of TFU.

Simple: it never has.

Fair, but that still doesn't take away from Anakin's feat in the Jedi temple.

Not really. Dooku (and Maul) have ragdolled Kenobi who, in turn, matched Skywalker's telekinesis: if a Force scream is as impressive as telekinesis , Dooku and Maul would both be able to ragdoll Vader, which is ridiculous.

Except for the fact that Dooku was terrified by Skywalker's display of power with the scream.
1. Since when is TK offense~TK defense.
2. Anakin still has TK feats which trump Obi-Wans and even dare I say Maul.
3. It was a low end showing. Get over it.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
That has nothing to do with lightsaber skill, a contest in which Starkiller struggled.

Well he wasn't at his peak at that point, and he never truly struggled against him. The fact is though that he has beaten Vader in lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
They were simple mannequins, moving one at a time, occasionally two at a time.

If by 'one' you actually mean 'one thousand' then yes. Seriously, he fights thousands of them at once in the novels.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You already did with your statements that they were equal. From the excerpts my fellow posters have listed from the novel, it seems to be of the notion that Vader was actually getting bested.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I'm not quite sure about that one.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Shaak Ti as of ROTS is considered one of the greatest swordmasters in the order, mentioned in the same breath as Dooku for her elegance in Makashi.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
In TFU, with her Saarlac pet, I have no doubt she could trounce Kenobi, who is really the only person I could see besting her sans Anakin, who'd actually likely pull a victory against her.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Shaak Ti is stated to be a swordsmaster. I'd gamble she's above Fisto.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Maul would lose to Shaak Ti on Felucia.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Fair, but that still doesn't take away from Anakin's feat in the Jedi temple.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Except for the fact that Dooku was terrified by Skywalker's display of power with the scream.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
1. Since when is TK offense~TK defense.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
2. Anakin still has TK feats which trump Obi-Wans and even dare I say Maul.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
3. It was a low end showing. Get over it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well he wasn't at his peak at that point, and he never truly struggled against him. The fact is though that he has beaten Vader in lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If by 'one' you actually mean 'one thousand' then yes. Seriously, he fights thousands of them at once in the novels.

He also manipulates the droids that attack him here:

'As he walked cautiously forward, feeling the nearness of Kazdan Paratus but uncertain of his exact location, one of the rubbish piles stirred. From it stepped a humanoid machine made from the junked droid parts he had expected to find on his journey.

The braincase of an FX-8 medical droid was bolted onto a body cobbled together from several types of outdated protocol models. Its limbs appeared to come from a mixture of EV and B1 battle droids, tipped with instruments and tools that wouldn't looked out of place in a workshop. Its sole functioning photoreceptor glared a bright, furious yellow. Its lurching gait achieved an appreciable speed before he sliced its head off.

A second patchwork droid emerged from a different rubbish pile, followed by a third. The sound of more droid golems stirring line from elsewhere in the Temple. The apprentice fought them ¨ with practiced ease. He had been dueling PROXY all his life; knew the weaknesses and strengths of droids, even one capable, by a clever use of repulsor technologies and a specially adapted antique training lightsaber, of imitating a Jedi. Ones such as these, with barely a matching part among them, were child's play.

Soon the foyer was full of the twitching, smoking bodies of the temple's hapless guardians. He began to tire, not from exertion but from the tedium of knocking down droid after droid, to no apparent end. There might have been thousands of them.

Deactivating his lightsaber, he took a deep breath. With one mighty exhalation of power, he blasted all of them-those in pieces and those approaching with needle-tipped fingers and vibrosaws upraised-out of the foyer doors. Then he blasted the rubbish piles after them. He kept pushing until a dark cloud toured out over Raxus Prime's hideous landscape-an artificial hurricane full of droid golems.

When the foyer was clear, the apprentice straightened. He was no longer pushing with the Force, but the floor beneath him shook nonetheless. A heavy booming sound came from deeper in the Temple, and was getting louder. He had certainly attracted someone's attention now.'

Alright.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not really. It was a battle of equals in a competition in which neither used their force powers offensively. For that matter, I'm not sure why we're arguing this considering we both agree that they were equals.

Neither do I.

If you're referring to the quote in Revenge of the Sith, it just mentions that Kenobi lacks that ''stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku''. It's not really a comparison between Ti and Dooku, moreso a comparison between Kenobi's lack of style in comparison to Ti and Dooku.

That's not the full quote.
"There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other great swordsbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is no- where in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become."

All of these swordsmen have top tier swordsmanship, sans perhaps Depa.

Also
"Must I demonstrate what would happen should you fight Obi-Wan Kenobi or Shaak Ti, Mace Windu, or stars help you, Yoda?"

That's twice in the mythos she's mentioned in the same breath as Mace Windu and Yoda

They even updated LOE to hype her further in the most recent release.

The Saarlac didn't really help her against Starkiller at all, it moreso helped Starkiller.

As has Fisto. Ti was forced back by Grievous when she had back-up, Fisto put Grievous on his ass.

Nope.

What has Anakin's feat in the temple to do with anything?

Quote?

Since when was it not?

Since Dooku was able to KO Kenobi, but not Skywalker.

It really wasn't.

It really was, Skywalker holds back the explosion of a cruiser in one TCWs episode as well.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
"I should have been here," he said through his teeth. "I told you. I should have been here."
"Anakin, he was defended by Stass Allie and Shaak Ti. If two Masters could not prevent this, do you think you could? Stass Allie is clever and valiant, and Shaak Ti is the most cunning Jedi I've ever met. She's even taught me a few tricks."

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
"There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other [b]great swordsbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is no- where in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become." [/B]

For the matter of comparing Dooku and her, one only need to look at their respective fights against OCW Grievous: Ti, with backup, was quite clearly inferior, while Dooku without backup stomped Grievous.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
"Must I demonstrate what would happen should you fight Obi-Wan Kenobi or Shaak Ti, Mace Windu, or stars help you, Yoda?"

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
That was twenty years before Shaak Ti faced Starkiller.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yup

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
His TK.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Since Dooku was able to KO Kenobi, but not Skywalker.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
[B]Her cunning has never helped her much in any fights.

Fisto and Tiin has the same hype. Kolar's hype is even better, being ''among the greatest bladesbeings ever produced by the Order'' (Revenge of the Sith). Bulq's hype is also better, being ''one of the most legendary lightsaber instructors the Order had ever produced'' (Galaxy Guide 15: Attack of the Clones).

For the matter of comparing Dooku and her, one only need to look at their respective fights against OCW Grievous: Ti, with backup, was quite clearly inferior, while Dooku without backup stomped Grievous.

You ignore that Ti was exhausted.

And how would Dooku know of Ti..?

Prove she improved.

20 years in wildlife taming a Dark Side force nexus tends to do that to Jedi Masters.

You created a thread for this.

Yup.
Point being Galen Marek has superior TK to Vaders and will trounce him everytime ROTJ or not.

Trounce is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Trounce is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Yeah it is. I've said 6.5/10 in his favor. Giving Vader a moderate win ratio. of 3.5

Going to commend Intrepid again for his skillful use of sources. I think it's going to be pretty close either way.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And yet Shaak Ti's prodigious force powers add to her hype. Considering she, you know tamed a Dark Side force nexus.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You ignore that Ti was exhausted.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Uhh because he was a Jedi...

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
20 years in wildlife taming a Dark Side force nexus tends to do that to Jedi Masters.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yup.
Point being Galen Marek has superior TK to Vaders and will trounce him everytime ROTJ or not.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
While impressive, such demonstration of power isn't applicable in combat, is it?

You're ignoring that she had two Jedi by her side.

And Dooku, busy with training Grievous and Ventress, responding to his master, acquiring multiple dark jed, setting up a rendezvous with Yoda and fighting numerous times throughout the Clone Wars would remember a random Jedi's skill?

Dude it's in the novel. It's canon, deal with it.

20 years of not using your blade tends to decrease ones skill.

Twenty years of sparring and training the natives and Mariss Brood, tends to speak otherwise.

😬

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No but it's a feat none the less.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dude it's in the novel. It's canon, deal with it.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Twenty years of sparring and training the natives and Mariss Brood, tends to speak otherwise.