True Blood universe vs. Supernatural universe

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just like zombies are dead but can be killed, ghosts can be killed, vamps, etc.

Horrible logic to the nth power.

🙄

In supernatural Zombies the undead. Beings who have died but have been brought back to life therefore killed. Ghosts can not be killed only forced to move on. Vampires are a bit on clear in SN as you only need to drink a vamps blood to turn. Its more like being turned into a monster then being killed. For example the episode where vampires were drugging people with their blood to turn them.

My logic is sound with in the realm of what I was discussing....the SN universe.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
🙄

In supernatural Zombies the undead. Beings who have died but have been brought back to life therefore killed. Ghosts can not be killed only forced to move on. Vampires are a bit on clear in SN as you only need to drink a vamps blood to turn. Its more like being turned into a monster then being killed. For example the episode where vampires were drugging people with their blood to turn them.

My logic is sound with in the realm of what I was discussing....the SN universe.

This is a combination of both universes. Marnie controls the dead. Deal with it or a vamp stabs him with his own scythe.

Take your pick.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just because you're dead that doesn't mean you cannot be killed. Call it what you want they are destroyed in that state.

This is a combination of both universes. Marnie controls the dead. Deal with it or a vamp stabs him with his own scythe.

Take your pick.

Take it how you will but it is how I explained it.

Yes this is the combination of both but it doesn't change the rules regarding each universe. So what I said certainly does apply to the SN universe. SN vamps only die through beheading TB vamps have normal vampire weakness...their traits do not merge.

ok I will say Death isn't dead as you have no evidence to prove he is. Now I have some questions about the scythe.......

....Where would said Vampire get Deaths Scythe and how would they even know it existed and that it could kill Death? Sam and Dean are a product of design. They live in the SN universe so its knowledge that through their contacts they could acquire......

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Take it how you will but it is how I explained it.

Yes this is the combination of both but it doesn't change the rules regarding each universe. So what I said certainly does apply to the SN universe. SN vamps only die through beheading TB vamps have normal vampire weakness...their traits do not merge.

ok I will say Death isn't dead as you have no evidence to prove he is. Now I have some questions about the scythe.......

....Where would said Vampire get Deaths Scythe and how would they even know it existed and that it could kill Death? Sam and Dean are a product of design. They live in the SN universe so its knowledge that through their contacts they could acquire......

But the fact Death can be controlled does carry over as do Marnie's powers.

Logical conclusion: she uses him.

Glamouring Sam and Dean for intel. 🙂

A vamp destroys Death.

Lucky for you he's safe from TB bullies.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We have seen her bind a spirit under her control.
That is one way we know of and since it can happen we know her magic works the same.
Evidence leans towards me not yourself.
I said she is the dead now. She is. She can be killed. Marnie kills her.

Apples and oranges 😛 Unless you believe that Van Helsing can kill a TB vamp with a cross? It takes a special ritual, special words and special items. Saying "All spells work exactly the same" is a massive dodge.

So prove that necromancy works just like the specific binding ritual and will have the same effect, when her spell only binds spirits that are inside her or the undead.. two things Death is not. And do so with canon evidence, not your home spun theories.

A character can be killed, so any character can kill them. Nice logic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, you have excuses. Undead beings can be killed. Point proven.

But the fact Death can be controlled does carry over as do Marnie's powers.

Logical conclusion: she uses him.

Glamouring Sam and Dean for intel. 🙂

A vamp destroys Death.

Lucky for you he's safe from TB bullies.

lmao Quan.

Yup by a singular ritual and Marnie aint got shit on that. so prove it or drop it because your only giving your opinion until you can prove her powers work on Death.

Assuming Sam and Dean could be glamored I don't see how it helps much other then giving them the ritual to bind Death. They could tell them about the scythe but when the boys got it, it was because Crowley had access to it. So a vampire has the ritual to bind Death. One of two things happen.

1) They are killed by Cass during or of after the glamor...before they could get all the ingredient to complete the ritual

2) The Vampire succeeds and Death just disobeys int the same way he disobeyed Lucifer.....a being that would snap his fingers and end TB.

They could learn angle Warding but Metatron can simple erase it. And this is all IF they could Glamor them.

It would be easier for SN to get knowledge on TB because a thought form takes on not only the look of someone but the memories as well. They would become a perfect replica and would know everything that person knew.

anyways Cass destroys everyone from TB all by himself. No one in TB knows how to kill him nor could they.

Just realized something about this topic, that TB's necromancy is highly limited in its own verse.

1. Marnie could only control the undead in her close proximity.
The only method Marnie has to control all undead within 20 miles is the Incantation of the Sun spell, which requires a whole coven of witches and constant chanting throughout. This spell only causes the undead to walk into the sunlight. Thats the only ranged control spell in TB.

"Erratus Mihi Exactum, Compre Gavo, Omnes Vosi Nevo Se Deductev Mihi, Hinc Porro, Egos Honos Tibi Domine!"

This 10 second incantation can be done solo, though must be done when the target is within 10ft.

2. TB Necromancy can only control those with actual dead bodies.
This only occurred to me when she could only use her ability to control vampires but not ghosts. Its just as Eric says when meeting the coven, "Yall looking for a dead body?" This is further proven when characters have to use ghost specific spells, and there are only two spells used to control these undead spirits;

The first spell is used to summon up many ghosts that are in the area, however there is no hold or control over them. The second spell is used to bind a spirit to the user, and to note the spirit must already be inside. Thats all.

TL;DR- Marnie's controlling spell has a small range, and without having a body that has deceases her necromancy control won't work on them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I disagree. Salt doesn't take them out. There are any ways to defeat SN ghosts unlike TB but who cares as it isn't up for debate here.

TB ghosts have possession and TK. SN ghosts have that, several abilities and superhuman stats. Yeah, TB ghosts would really be a threat.. oh, and replying means you care, remember? Don't reply and its dropped.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are greatly exaggerating the shitty hunters. They aren't anything special. We have seen them beaten time and time again due to death, etc. they are the stars hence they always comes back.

Non physical beings aren't in the thread so no Hell hounds. This won't all be taking place in 10 minutes both sides will have time to regroup, etc.

The fly tactic it literally the best the Shifter classes hsve to offer here, and if someone sees that happen once, it wont happen again. That and only two people have shown the ability to become flys.

O.o Urm, Hellhounds are physical beings.. Sam even grabbed one. Remember the salt+iron bomb Jo made to kill a few?

Originally posted by quanchi112
TB intel is going to happen quickly here as they can glamour or read minds and speak to each other. Makers can also sense their progeny.

Yeah, that isnt quick my any means. Certainly longer than; SN: Abduct anyone to hell > torture (On earth it would take less than a min) > telepathically inform all Angles > execute plan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it cannot. We see demons struggle against far less formidable beings than TB supernaturals.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dean and Sam know. Glamouring. Game over.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No non physical beings are included here. They can't all do so easily but all demons anddead types can be controlled by Marnie. Give me an example of demons who cannot be controlled due to being dead by Marnie who can replicate this feat ?

But to answer the rest that has nothing to do with this atm;
1. The only ones in that list 'you' would consider controllable are the Reapers and Demons. As said in the above post neither use dead bodies so no, she wont control them.
2. Also as said above, none of them would even be within range.
3. These level of beings can only be controlled by powerful spells and they've been proven to resist control by things not at the right level.

So assuming her spell is strong enough (the feats don't suggest), assuming they're within range (they wont be), and assuming her power works on them (it wont) then we're left with the fact that it still leaves 5 'groups' that can still do this and much easier than the 2 groups you think can be controlled.

Originally posted by quanchi112 What makes you feel physical strength cannot harm an upper ranking angel or demon in a human body ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's just the heroes always winning type nonsense. We see more or less they prevail but they don't really pose a threat to vamps, Mary Anne, or Fae.

When has Glamour been resisted ? If you can't name a time a human has resisted it then it works against non supernatural types.

Resisting something more powerful than Glamour via the willpower Eric mentioned about Glamour. Unless something says that a stronger vamp has superior mind control, its happening.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I want the characters as they normally appear.

Originally posted by BloodRain
First Death is among the undead, now he's a spirit? And you're citing a moment when she binds a spirit inside of herself.. Also "Bound = character still has control" Even the option you want will fail.

Apples and oranges 😛 Unless you believe that Van Helsing can kill a TB vamp with a cross? It takes a special ritual, special words and special items. Saying "All spells work exactly the same" is a massive dodge.

So prove that necromancy works just like the specific binding ritual and will have the same effect, when her spell only binds spirits that are inside her or the undead.. two things Death is not. And do so with canon evidence, not your home spun theories.

A character can be killed, so any character can kill them. Nice logic.

When did I say all spells work exactly the same ?

Her spells show she can control the dead such as Eric Northman.

That's what happens to Death.

The scythe kills death used by any TB vampire. Too fast.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
lmao Quan.

Yup by a singular ritual and Marnie aint got shit on that. so prove it or drop it because your only giving your opinion until you can prove her powers work on Death.

Assuming Sam and Dean could be glamored I don't see how it helps much other then giving them the ritual to bind Death. They could tell them about the scythe but when the boys got it, it was because Crowley had access to it. So a vampire has the ritual to bind Death. One of two things happen.

1) They are killed by Cass during or of after the glamor...before they could get all the ingredient to complete the ritual

2) The Vampire succeeds and Death just disobeys int the same way he disobeyed Lucifer.....a being that would snap his fingers and end TB.

They could learn angle Warding but Metatron can simple erase it. And this is all IF they could Glamor them.

It would be easier for SN to get knowledge on TB because a thought form takes on not only the look of someone but the memories as well. They would become a perfect replica and would know everything that person knew.

anyways Cass destroys everyone from TB all by himself. No one in TB knows how to kill him nor could they.

1) what makes you so sure cass can kill them.

2) not at all. Lucifer's human body gets destroyed and bye bye.

How can cass destroy them all ?

Originally posted by BloodRain
There arent actually: 1) Hit with Salt or Iron, it disperses them taking a short moment to come back. 2) Destroying the remains. Impossible here. 3) A much stronger being, again impossible here.

TB ghosts have possession and TK. SN ghosts have that, several abilities and superhuman stats. Yeah, TB ghosts would really be a threat.. oh, and replying means you care, remember? Don't reply and its dropped.

Wait, so humans can be killed? Shocking. How about we look at the facts here? As a human, shifters and panthers are nothing but people with a slightly better sense of smell. A strong Were is an athletic level human, but a good hunter is also this, maybe not as physically strong but with better training and waponry. No as a werewolf, werepanther, croc or bull they pose a threat but are still just animals which would fall to a shotgun.

The fly tactic it literally the best the Shifter classes hsve to offer here, and if someone sees that happen once, it wont happen again. That and only two people have shown the ability to become flys.

O.o Urm, Hellhounds are physical beings.. Sam even grabbed one. Remember the salt+iron bomb Jo made to kill a few?

TB: Find a human > abduct to disclosed are > glamour some info on the 40 creatures > inform a Fae > telepathically inform all Fae > inform as many vamps as possible > get resources and draw Devil Traps > lure demons into traps > stop said demon or others from breaking it > deal with the trapped demon..

Yeah, that isnt quick my any means. Certainly longer than; SN: Abduct anyone to hell > torture (On earth it would take less than a min) > telepathically inform all Angles > execute plan.

It would take a single touch for an Angel to teleport in and take [b]any vampire to hell. It would take a Seraph a single click to do the same. Hax. All about the hax.

Oh yeah, I forgot that every single TB character will automatically know which two out of the thousands have the exact info they need 😛 Thats the thing, they have absolutely no way of knowing who to target to get this info. What about Glamouring someone "Human, who has the information we seek"? Nope. As said barely anyone knows the Winchesters have gone up High-Demons, and less to none know about the Angles. Assuming they get lucky and find the right person, all they'll get is "Sam and Dean Winchester know all about those Demons and Angels" If you don't see the poblem its that all they have is a name..
And on that, what do you think would happen if Dean or Sam get taken? You'd automatically have an Angel on their tail, teleporting in to smite the vap mid Glamour. Keep in mind that these two are going to either be valued as friends/acquaintances or valued for all the secrets they hold. The SN know they're valued pieces on the board and won't sit back and let a vamp fling one over their solder and run off.

Couldnt help but notice you saying that this tactic would still work for those who can do this. Lol the few Demons there were only for fire and removing their hearts. The Archangels, Seraphs, Angels, Reapers, Pestilence, some Witches and Pagen gods can still infect them with Hep D, silver in their blood, set them on fire or take away their hearts with gestures. 😐

But to answer the rest that has nothing to do with this atm;
1. The only ones in that list 'you' would consider controllable are the Reapers and Demons. As said in the above post neither use dead bodies so no, she wont control them.
2. Also as said above, none of them would even be within range.
3. These level of beings can only be controlled by powerful spells and they've been proven to resist control by things not at the right level.

So assuming her spell is strong enough (the feats don't suggest), assuming they're within range (they wont be), and assuming her power works on them (it wont) then we're left with the fact that it still leaves 5 'groups' that can still do this and much easier than the 2 groups you think can be controlled.

Oh it can. Its just a vampire is physically weaker than either. Like I said earlier, strong Monsters like a werewolf, rugaru or wendigo can rip heads off, shove an arm through a persons chest and throw people across the room. Three of the four only strengths to TBs name with the forth being cleared by mid-demon strength of easily lifting up a 2 ton car. Those monsters are around a the strength of mid-demons, as are all vampires from everything we've seen. As we know if a being in this class challenge an angel or high-demon they're going to be pinned to the ground by their throats in an instant.

Tara and the coven were killing vamps in the mist, who were the antagonists. Several anti-vamps have done so. That one guy silvered Eric. And currently tons of vamps are being captured by humans. Heroes always winning, or humans having a chance?

Resisting something more powerful than Glamour via the willpower Eric mentioned about Glamour. Unless something says that a stronger vamp has superior mind control, its happening.

That covers Demon!Sam, didn't verdict the Rabbits Foot though. So no Antonia for Marnie then, just like with Sam? [/B]

Weres are stronger and more athletic as well as more formidable in animal form. Plus get them on V and far stronger. What's to stop the Weres from also wielding weapons ? Better sense of smell as you yourself even mentioned.

Sam can fly into someone and make them explode. 🙂

They are invisible and out of play here.

Vamps can grab a human and take them away in a few seconds. The entire process takes a few minutes. Not allowed to take to hell. Have to stay on battlefield in some capacity.

Not allowed to leave battlefield to hell. 🙂

Reading minds. Fae. In a war intel will be a must and it won't take long to get info which will lead them to Sam and Dean.

Vamps are too fast for them to deal with. Hep V isn't known to them.

1. Any dead within close proximity can be controlled.
2. In this battlefield yes they would.
3. But they can still be controlled just as in TB. Powerful magic works.

Again with the groups she herself controls that tips themselves scales vastly in TB's favor.

Those monsters lack the speed of the TB vamps. That's the thing. We also see feats from less than 300 year old vampires is impressive let alone the heavyweights who treat them like children by comparison.

Yes, as two humans also hunt down every major demonic threat or angelic threat by themselves sometimes. Vamps go down just like demons and angels. The vampires are splintered and ripe at the moment since many older powerful vampires aren't around, Warlow hates them and tries his best to defy them, the Authority is no more.

Bilith's feats really show what he's capable of along with showing they have synthesized Fae blood to eliminate the biggest advantage human beings have.

Fine they can have the rabbits foot since you cried about it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again it isn't relevant for this thread so no further need in crying about it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Weres are stronger and more athletic as well as more formidable in animal form. Plus get them on V and far stronger. What's to stop the Weres from also wielding weapons ? Better sense of smell as you yourself even mentioned.
Sam can fly into someone and make them explode.
They are invisible and out of play here.

They 'might' be superior to Hunters physically, but any gap is easily covered and then some by their combat skills and weapon skills. The best bet were's have is to be on V, and tbh this would put them on low-monster tier in strength. Now if this rank of monster wasn't the most common thing your average Hunter goes after, we'd be in for some trouble.

Yes, those who do not instantly spit out the fly as per human reactions. Now assuming this does happen, anyone witnessing will not let it happen again.

Aw so no Shojo either ? I liked that Ringu lil drunk *****..

Originally posted by quanchi112
Vamps can grab a human and take them away in a few seconds. The entire process takes a few minutes. Not allowed to take to hell. Have to stay on battlefield in some capacity. Not allowed to leave battlefield to hell.

"Bfr is fair game"

I feel you're just editing rules mid-way.. but fine, I'll adapt: A snap of the fingers and a vamp is put in its own world where it thinks its going against its own kind. It proceeds to talk about all of their weaknesses. Or someone mind reads. Or made to think they're best buds with the casters and willingly spill the details. Basically the same thing can be done without ever leaving the battlefield, and still much quicker and quicker to transfer info than TB's mirrored efforts.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Reading minds. Fae. In a war intel will be a must and it won't take long to get info which will lead them to Sam and Dean.

Vamps are too fast for them to deal with. Hep V isn't known to them.

Again, unless you want to get into the specifics of speed, and I'd welcome it, speed is moot. Think it'll be hard to look at a vampire and snap your fingers? If humans can get the drop on them, beings far faster than a human can do a simple task of clicking. And remember why I've been saying info gathering will be so easy? Because Fire, Decapitation, Hearts and Silver are known byevery True Blood character.. humans included.

Nothing is going to stop SN from getting info when any random human will offer up 80% of everything they need here. Then the simple process of exceuting the plan, it will be swift and effortless with gestures. On the other hand TB will need to find resources, set traps and figure out which creature is which..

Allow me to elaborate: A vampire has to first know what the tell-tell signs of a certain monster is. Get lucky to see the black eyes of a demon, the teeth of a Leviathan right before it chomps, teeth and spike of a J.Starship.. you see my point? And what, are they also going to ask what these signs are? The vamps will need to know the signs of the right creature and know which weakness goes to them.
Then we get to the point that some creatures like Reapers, Pagen gods and Angels shown no signs of what they are.

TB have to..
-Get in the heads of dozens upon dozens to find specific characters in order to get the right information
-Locate said specific characters
-Abduct (vamps) or approach (Fae) to get that infomation
-Get the information out of them without interruption (vamps) or being fought beforehand (Fae)
-Find out the tell-tell signs of creatures
-Find out the weaknesses to said creatures
-Mentally spread message, or tell a Fae to
-Arm selves with equipment/Draw symbols
-Distinguish what creature is what
-Use appropriate equipment
>>>Still having no visuals on certain beings and highly unlikely they'll get the right tools for them

SN have to..
-Abduct or click at any character they so choose
-Get the information (cannot be interrupted as they either teleported away or the target has been apported away)
-Mentally spread message
-Begin clicking fingers

:T

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Any dead within close proximity can be controlled.
2. In this battlefield yes they would.
3. But they can still be controlled just as in TB. Powerful magic works.

Again with the groups she herself controls that tips themselves scales vastly in TB's favor.

So lets see.. what in SN has a dead body like what here necromancy can control? Ghouls and Zombies. Yay for her? Good luck having them sand within 10ft of her.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Those monsters lack the speed of the TB vamps. That's the thing. We also see feats from less than 300 year old vampires is impressive let alone the heavyweights who treat them like children by comparison.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, as two humans also hunt down every major demonic threat or angelic threat by themselves sometimes. Vamps go down just like demons and angels. The vampires are splintered and ripe at the moment since many older powerful vampires aren't around, Warlow hates them and tries his best to defy them, the Authority is no more.

Bilith's feats really show what he's capable of along with showing they have synthesized Fae blood to eliminate the biggest advantage human beings have.

The Winchesters admit themselves that going up against mid-monsters and low-demons is a huge struggle. Going up against anything above is suicidal and they only do so with timing and a proper plan. Why is this different from TB? Because the humans in TB don't have the same training, skills, knowledge etc to kill vamps. All it takes is good aim with the right ammo and humans have the vamps on the run, as shown in the series. Humans are always killing and incapacitating vampires.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Fine they can have the rabbits foot since you cried about it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
She has bound both a spirit and controlled.
When did I say all spells work exactly the same ?
Her spells show she can control the dead such as Eric Northman.

Only able to bind spirits inside her, wont work like the very specific ritual, and she can only control dead bodies like this not the dead in general. But ja, all in the other post.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's what happens to Death.

The scythe kills death used by any TB vampire. Too fast.

And its worth noting that in SN necromancy doesn't work on Reapers or Demons. Only things like ghosts and actual dead bodies, which link exactly to what I said above.

..We're talking about Eve, remember?

Just because speed is going to be a topic later, this is the speed argument:

TB- All triple digit Vampires only move at blur speeds which humans can barely, if they can, keep up with.
SN- Acheri (1:05), Shitriga (2:50), ghosts (3:25), Rawhead, Leshi, Alpha Vampire.. all showing blurring speeds humans can't keep up with.
Verdict: Vampire speed below 1,000yrs = Low tier speed.

TB- Out of the 7 vamps above the 1,000 range, only Eric has shown bullet-reactions, and possible speed as he's a slight slower than the bullet while similar to that wolf.
SN- The High-Demon Azazel (0:25) and Mid-Demon Tammi (1:15) both have casual bullet speed feats. With Mercury (1:50, 3:34)
Verdict: Vampire speed above 1,000yrs =/< Mid tier speed.

TB- No higher showings in TB exist. Though we can assume that Bil&lith and Warlow for being much older could casually blitz someone like Eric. Thats over supersonic.
SN- Castiel saves the brothers from an explosion (2:30), searches through all of Calumet City in about 6 seconds (1:30) and Anna's line about losing track but still able to keep track on her speed which she states to be 10,000 mph (<-providing a limit?). Then we have High-tier Demons having the reactions to fight lower Angles like Castiel, and Archangels being above them altogether.
Verdict: The fastest Vampire speed we can assume < High tier speed.

Another time consuming post which means on hiatus.

Figured that, hence me posting that in advance.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Figured that, hence me posting that in advance.

Nah, if a TB supporter won't step up I shall do as I please.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Nah, if a TB supporter won't step up I shall do as I please.

I'm going to destroy Dorf very shortly.

..what game?

And any supporter can stand up, not bothered.