Thor (CIS/CIP OFF) vs Superboy Prime

Originally posted by Odekahn
None taken. It's possible that I don't, and if someone provides enough evidence to convince me I will change my stance. Until then, I'm sticking with Prime.

How does Prime inhibit himself to where CIP will effect him? Not speed blitzing every enemy seems more like PIS and CIS than CIP. Prime doesnt intentionally hold himself back when fighting.

Okay. In a nutshell, Thor can create nigh impenetrable defenses, can absorb and redirect energy to an insane degree, can open up portals to various stars and suns and could floor the area with red sunlight, can attack Prime with the storms of over a thousand worlds, and other methods of attacks he wouldn't normally resort to on the average.

Speedblitzing ala Flash and doing things like going intangible and constantly using speed offensively isn't the result of PIS or CIS, but rather their character. In character, Prime slugs it out. He's not "nerfed" due to the plot or suddenly has his power level drastically diminished. In character, Prime isn't anywhere near as close of an effective combatant as Superman himself is (though he's more powerful). To that end, Superman is more likely doing speedblitz/combo-to-ko and blending all of his powers together fluidly more so than Prime would ever be.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Okay. In a nutshell, Thor can create nigh impenetrable defenses, can absorb and redirect energy to an insane degree, can open up portals to various stars and suns and could floor the area with red sunlight, can attack Prime with the storms of over a thousand worlds, and other methods of attacks he wouldn't normally resort to on the average.

Speedblitzing ala Flash and doing things like going intangible and constantly using speed offensively isn't the result of PIS or CIS, but rather their character. In character, Prime slugs it out. He's not "nerfed" due to the plot or suddenly has his power level drastically diminished. In character, Prime isn't anywhere near as close of an effective combatant as Superman himself is (though he's more powerful). To that end, Superman is more likely doing speedblitz/combo-to-ko and blending all of his powers together fluidly more so than Prime would ever be.

Ok let's try this...

Define this for me. From CIS "any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves". Could you expand on this for me?

And...

This is known as Character Inhibited Power. This applies to characters that have intelligence, like the Silver Surfer, Superman, and so on and so forth.

As Bada said:

"It's a self imposed limitation in certain circumstances which there is concern for civilians and buildings for the most part. It's not stupidity, it's a limitation set until the threat exceeds a certain threshold."

Are you saying Prime self imposes limitations on himself when fighting? From the stance of a hero this makes sense. Not Prime.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Ok let's try this...

Define this for me. From CIS "any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves". Could you expand on this for me?

And...

This is known as Character Inhibited Power. This applies to characters that have intelligence, like the Silver Surfer, Superman, and so on and so forth.

As Bada said:

"It's a self imposed limitation in certain circumstances which there is concern for civilians and buildings for the most part. It's not stupidity, it's a limitation set until the threat exceeds a certain threshold."

Are you saying Prime self imposes limitations on himself when fighting? From the stance of a hero this makes sense. Not Prime.

Prime doesn't hold back his killing intent most of the time. But does he utilize his power set to the highest degree possible on panel? No, he doesn't. Further more, Prime is an arrogant smug bastard as well.

Basically, Prime is fighting Thor like he does in the comics, minus PIS. Thor is fighting Prime completely out of character, going for the biggest and best attacks he can muster from the get go.

Does that make sense?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Prime doesn't hold back his killing intent most of the time. But does he utilize his power set to the highest degree possible on panel? No, he doesn't. Further more, Prime is an arrogant smug bastard as well.

But see that sounds like...
"Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively."

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying about how Prime uses his powers. I'm just disagreeing whether its CIS or CIP.

imagine thor with his belt of strength while bloodlusted and in warrior madness mode and fighting smart. Provided prime don't blitz I see SBP going down.

The difference between CIP and CIS is something along the lines of this:

Superman fights Batman.

With CIS off, Superman uses his speed, intelligence and quick thinking to take away any tool Batman can use against him, say, the chunk of Kryptonite, but still acts somewhat like Superman.

CIP off, Superman heat-visions Batman's hand off, and tombstone pilderiver's him in to the sun.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The difference between CIP and CIS is something along the lines of this:

Superman fights Batman.

With CIS off, Superman uses his speed, intelligence and quick thinking to take away any tool Batman can use against him, say, the chunk of Kryptonite, but still acts somewhat like Superman.

CIP off, Superman heat-visions Batman's hand off, and tombstone pilderiver's him in to the sun.

What's funny is I was just thinking "Thanks" after I read your post, only to scroll down and see your sig say YOU'RE WELCOME like Damien Sandow, lol.

Ok, now can you explain to me how CIS and CIP would both affect Prime when fighting. It's easy to see how CIP off could benefit Superman, as he regularly and intentionally limits himself. Prime wouldn't consciously do that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Okay. Can I have the issue number? Just to be clear, you're saying that the DC Universe was expanded into a Multiverse when Parallax remade creation? And Superman contributed 1/8th to this?

i'd like to hear more about that as well......

Originally posted by Odekahn
What's funny is I was just thinking "Thanks" after I read your post, only to scroll down and see your sig say YOU'RE WELCOME like Damien Sandow, lol.

Ok, now can you explain to me how CIS and CIP would both affect Prime when fighting. It's easy to see how CIP off could benefit Superman, as he regularly and intentionally limits himself. Prime wouldn't consciously do that.

CIP doesn't really affect that much, as his character doesn't tend to worry about hurting others (not since he went nuclear).

CIS, on the other hand, is the reason he doesn't just speedblitz/HV everyone at the first sign of trouble.

CIP is what you know you CAN do, but don't.

CIS is what not knowing what you can do, or allowing yourself to be weakened by mental blocks.

Originally posted by -Pr-
CIP doesn't really affect that much, as his character doesn't tend to worry about hurting others (not since he went nuclear).

CIS, on the other hand, is the reason he doesn't just speedblitz/HV everyone at the first sign of trouble.

CIP is what you know you CAN do, but don't.

CIS is what not knowing what you can do, or allowing yourself to be weakened by mental blocks.

See this was my understanding as well.

Per OP, both are fighting without CIS. Thor is fighting without CIP as well, and essentially so is Prime.

"CIP doesn't really affect that much, as his character doesn't tend to worry about hurting others (not since he went nuclear)."

So CIP is already off for Prime in this situation.

"CIS, on the other hand, is the reason he doesn't just speedblitz/HV everyone at the first sign of trouble."

Right. Which is what I think Jake said is the definition of CIP, when he referenced the Flash as an example. Thus why I wanted clarification.

"CIP is what you know you CAN do, but don't."

So... Morals.

"CIS is what not knowing what you can do, or allowing yourself to be weakened by mental blocks."

Which is off for both characters as per the OP.

So they are both fighting under the same conditions and I stand by my statement of trans brick > herald brick. Prime wins.

Originally posted by -Pr-

CIS, on the other hand, is the reason he doesn't just speedblitz/HV everyone at the first sign of trouble.

Another question would be, with CIS on how does CIP affect the fight??

It seems to me that CIP is a form of CIS, and having both in the same fight is redundant. It seems that CIP is merely a subsection of CIS.

Thor can summon the belt of strength to himself at a whim btw. The same goes for his Asgardian Armor although that usually takes a few moments to put on, something he doesn't have here. Unless, he protects himself with a mystical force field, which he could.

Also, how does Prime defend against energy draining again?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor can summon the belt of strength to himself at a whim btw. The same goes for his Asgardian Armor although that usually takes a few moments to put on, something he doesn't have here. Unless, he protects himself with a mystical force field, which he could.

Also, how does Prime defend against energy draining again?

The only chance Thor would have is if he had Odin Force

Originally posted by nikfang
The only chance Thor would have is if he had Odin Force

Originally posted by nikfang
The only chance Thor would have is if he had Odin Force

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on ?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think even you would agree it's a pretty safe bet that it's 616 Thor. Seriously, why would it be an alternate reality Thor? What part of the comic made you even momentarily doubt that it was him? The scene specifically points out that they were summoning the one true, real Thor.

The whole arc took place right in the middle of B&T He is a Thor plucked from a fudge up time stream where past from realities could be similar. So, no I don't agree with you

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What do you mean fragile? They were collapsing due to Demonstaff's tampering but they're the boundaries that separate the Universes/Dimensions/Timelines of this part of creation. Since they've held up this long and prevent everything destroying themselves, probably pretty sturdy.

That is a very poor argument TBH, Just because they have been there for a long time, it does not mean they are "probably pretty sturdy" Demonstaff mentions IIRC at the beginning of the arc, that He is amazed on how fragile the walls of reality are, case in point, thor's hammer can open them, unless Thor's hammer happen to have the juice to collapse those walls too or to have enough juice to challenge eternity, then it is pretty safe to assume that what demonstaff mentions about the walls being fragile is true.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
They were preventing the boundaries from collapsing. They just could not do it indefinitely because sooner or later they'd run out of juice, and everything would end.

That's a shitty example to use. And for the last time, I don't see anyone claiming that they fixed the problem, simply that they prevented it.

AGAIN, They JUST BOLSTERED the walls, they prevent nothing, my shitty example is the exact same analogy that will apply. Bolstering some wall is not equal to prevent something, it is just bolstering and that is what it is.

Now imagine trying to bolster a drywall used as a dam with 4 sacks of sand and this is what they did basically, or that was how I interpreted the feat.

In this case some believe that a "GB can hold 1/4 of the marvel universe structure" but not harm Juggernaut.

It is a very bogus feat IMO

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
The whole arc took place right in the middle of B&T He is a Thor plucked from a fudge up time stream where past from realities could be similar. So, no I don't agree with you

I don't particularly care what you believe but the intention is pretty clear to me:

This was the 616 Thor as far as I'm concerned. He might have been from somewhere in the past (And since he wasn't mad, Masterson's guess was correct) before Blood and Thunder but who cares? If it's Thor from a few months ago or a hundreds years ago, it's still Thor. The Thor Corps specifically set their minds to summoning the real deal.

Frankly, it should be up to you to prove it's not the 616 Thor since three Odin enchanted hammers could teleport a fly from the other side of the Multiverse from a specific time. Not to mention that there's a bond between all Mjolnir wielders that connects them.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
That is a very poor argument TBH, Just because they have been there for a long time, it does not mean they are "probably pretty sturdy" Demonstaff mentions IIRC at the beginning of the arc, that He is amazed on how fragile the walls of reality are, case in point,

I don't understand what you want me to do, post scans of durability feats for the barriers that separate time/space? Then pretty much every time an explosion happens in a Marvel comic of any magnitude that doesn't go past Trans-universal, it's a feat. 🙂

Also, Demonstaff specifically has the ability to affect these barriers and warp reality:

Is Superman's durability suspect because I can kick his ass with Kryptonite?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
thor's hammer can open them, unless Thor's hammer happen to have the juice to collapse those walls too or to have enough juice to challenge eternity, then it is pretty safe to assume that what demonstaff mentions about the walls being fragile is true.

So because Mjolnir can break the barriers of time/space through teleportation, the boundaries of creation have to be inherently weak? What the f*ck? How does that even make sense? They aren't damaging the barriers, merely bypassing them. It's teleportation. What's next, going to bring up Nightcrawler?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
AGAIN, They JUST BOLSTERED the walls, they prevent nothing, my shitty example is the exact same analogy that will apply. Bolstering some wall is not equal to prevent something, it is just bolstering and that is what it is.

Now imagine trying to bolster a drywall used as a dam with 4 sacks of sand and this is what they did basically, or that was how I interpreted the feat.

In this case I believe that a GB can hold the marvel universe structure but not harm Juggernaut.

It is a very bogus feat IMO

I can literally just copy and paste my previous post in response to this. Thor very clearly states that everything was about to collapse:

They bolstered/supported or whatever word you deem fit to use the boundaries, long enough for Demonstaff to have his change of heart and intervene. That's a very noteworthy feat, get over it.

So because Juggernaut was only pushed back, it invalidates a superior power showing for the God Blast? Especially since there was context that separates both of these two showings?

And if anyone still doubts that it was Multiversal:

Well, lol.