Originally posted by marwash22
Cool. This brings us right back to Hancock never being hurt, Kal being hurt multiple times and Zod having his neck broken.Are you suggesting that Hancock's head being hit by a speeding train and his head not being moved or damaged suggests that his neck would be vulnerable to being snapped?
Again Hancock was never hit by the power that has hit Zod. Hancock tanking lesser forces doe not prove he can't be hurt. That's called a no limits fallacy meng. He can only tank forces up to what he's been shown to withstand. Zod brings considerable greater force. Kal snapped Zod's neck with greater force than Hancock has ever seen. His neck would likely snap the same
So a train not moving it mean nothing can? He was losing a fight to a being far inferior to Zod BTW
Originally posted by juggermani never made that claim, meng. I said we never saw Hancock get hurt, then I asked a question that you didn't answer...
Again Hancock was never hit by the power that has hit Zod. Hancock tanking lesser forces doe not prove he can't be hurt. That's called a no limits fallacy meng.
Do you think Hancock's head and neck being hit with thousands of pounds of force (and it not budging or being damaged) suggests that, THAT is the upper limit of his strength and invulnerability?
If so, that is a ridiculous thing to suggest, it's you putting a cap on Hancock's power where no cap was ever indicated. I never once said Hancock could tank ANYTHING... what i will suggest is that, since he didn't budge or get hurt at all when the train hit him, the upper limit of his strength and invulnerability is clearly well beyond being able to withstand the thousands of pounds of force the train had behind it.
The same way that i can't say Hancock could tank a planet falling on him, you can't say he's unable to tank punches from Superman (or Zod)... your suggestion is a deductive fallacy because Hancock was NEVER hurt at all, and you're putting an limit on the character that doesn't exist.
Once again, we saw Kal get physically hurt and tired from being knocked through buildings... there were no sonic booms when those punches landed. For you to claim that those punches had more force behind them than a speeding train, when you have no numbers to back the assertion up, is ridiculous.
So, on one hand, we have plenty of evidence that suggests a character (Superman/Zod) has a limit to the punishment he can handle, and on the other we have evidence that points to a character being able to survive much more than thousands of pounds of force, and that the character never showed any signs of actually having a limit to the punishment he can handle.
Originally posted by juggermanso if i hit you in the chest and you're not hurt by it at all, does that mean that the force behind that particular punch is ALL you'd be able to handle? That makes no sense. You'd have a point if the train had moved or hurt Hancock, even a little, but since the train had zero effect on him, logic dictates that he could tank more than that... how much more is unknown, but it's not within reason for you to determine what that limit is.
He can only tank forces up to what he's been shown to withstand.
Originally posted by juggermanridiculous. You have no evidence to support his neck would snap, nor do you have numbers that say how much force it took to actually snap Zod's neck.
His neck would likely snap the same
Everything you've said is your opinion.
Originally posted by juggermanAgain, i never made that claim.
So a train not moving it mean nothing can?
Originally posted by juggermanHe was losing the fight, but never got tired or injured; also, you have zero proof that Mary is weaker than Zod.
He was losing a fight to a being far inferior to Zod BTW
all you have in this debate is the imaginary limits you're putting on the character, when no limit was suggested in the movie.
There's actual dialogue that says Hancock and Mary are immortal... from that it's reasonable to assume that they are completely invulnerable and can only be harmed or die when they're together... you can disagree with that interpretation, but at least it's based on something factual. The limit you've placed on the character isn't based on anything but your opinion.
Originally posted by marwash22
i never made that claim, meng. I said we never saw Hancock get hurt, then I asked a question that you didn't answer...Do you think Hancock's head and neck being hit with thousands of pounds of force (and it not budging or being damaged) suggests that, THAT is the upper limit of his strength and invulnerability?
If so, that is a ridiculous thing to suggest, it's you putting a cap on Hancock's power where no cap was ever indicated. I never once said Hancock could tank ANYTHING... what i will suggest is that, since he didn't budge or get hurt at all when the train hit him, the upper limit of his strength and invulnerability is clearly well beyond being able to withstand the thousands of pounds of force the train had behind it.
The same way that i can't say Hancock could tank a planet falling on him, you can't say he's unable to tank punches from Superman (or Zod)... your suggestion is a deductive fallacy because Hancock was NEVER hurt at all, and you're putting an limit on the character that doesn't exist.
Once again, we saw Kal get physically hurt and tired from being knocked through buildings... there were no sonic booms when those punches landed. For you to claim that those punches had more force behind them than a speeding train, when you have no numbers to back the assertion up, is ridiculous.
So, on one hand, we have plenty of evidence that suggests a character (Superman/Zod) has a limit to the punishment he can handle, and on the other we have evidence that points to a character being able to survive much more than thousands of pounds of force, and that the character never showed any signs of actually having a limit to the punishment he can handle.
so if i hit you in the chest and you're not hurt by it at all, does that mean that the force behind that particular punch is ALL you'd be able to handle? That makes no sense. You'd have a point if the train had moved or hurt Hancock, even a little, but since the train had zero effect on him, logic dictates that he could tank more than that... how much more is unknown, but it's not within reason for you to determine what that limit is.
ridiculous. You have no evidence to support his neck would snap, nor do you have numbers that say how much force it took to actually snap Zod's neck.
Everything you've said is your opinion.
Again, i never made that claim.
He was losing the fight, but never got tired or injured; also, you have zero proof that Mary is weaker than Zod.
all you have in this debate is the imaginary limits you're putting on the character, when no limit was suggested in the movie.
There's actual dialogue that says Hancock and Mary are immortal... from that it's reasonable to assume that they are completely invulnerable and can only be harmed or die when they're together... you can disagree with that interpretation, but at least it's based on something factual. The limit you've placed on the character isn't based on anything but your opinion.
Which question are you reffering to exactly? You've asked quite a few in response to questions of my own
No but again the train didn't cause anywhere near the force/speed required to create a sonic boom. Which is what hits from Kal/Zod did indeed cause
Would you agree a hit that caused a sonic boom would be significantly more force/speed than the train would have produced?
I'm going off what we were shown. He can tank anything up to and a bit beyond a speeding train. While very impressive it does not compare to some of the things Zod can do. You agree that forces well beyond the train(your example was planets) could harm him since the train was his highest showing. So why not Zod exactly who has shown force well beyond the train as well?
There were several sonic boom punches duriong the fight itself. The fight was also much more intense than Hancock's so it's easy to understand him being tired especially after the World Engine. He still was no worse for wear after the fight. No lingering injuries or anything. The train lacks sonic boom feats. The punches don't
So back to your no limits fallacy? Iyo could hancock also tank a blast from Doc Manhattan? Since he's shown no upper limit and all?
That's fine but the train didn't have the speed/force required to cause booms of sonic.
It took force Hancock was never shown to have. A sonic boom went off during the snap. Hancock has never shown that amount of power so logic dictates he would be unable to reproduce this action.
And everything you've said is your opinion as well. That's the point
What proof is there that Mary is as strong as Zod? What feats does she have? Point me to a few if you don't mind
You're debating that since Hancock has shown no limits that he has none. That's a fallacy and i disagree with your application of it
Immortal=/=invulnerable. They were thought to be so but as Mary stated it was long ago. I'm sure swords and spears not affecting them would be seen as invulnerable in that time but thethat doesn't mean nothing at all ever could affect them. Again a fallacy.
Zod wins. His feats are superior, his fighting ability is superior, and Hancock has never shown the strength required to actually harm him. Hancock could knock him thru a building or two but he couldn't put him down. Hancock isn't as strong as Kal
Originally posted by juggerman
He can tank anything up to and a bit beyond a speeding train. While very impressive it does not compare to some of the things Zod can do.
Considering the ease of how he tanked that train, I'm pretty sure we can tank quite a lot more than the train. Superman on the other hand struggled with an oil rig and eventually got himself knocked out when it fell on him.
Zod also doesn't have much strength feats asides from his punch fest with Superman. Zod IIRC doesn't exactly have much impressive feats. If he does please remind me again.
Also to achieve a sonic boom you need to reach a certain amount of velocity. The train is too slow to achieve a sonic boom, but that doesn't mean that it's any less stronger than the impact of Kal-el's fist. Not saying it is stronger, just saying that a sonic boom is not a surefire way to determine the force behind an impact.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Considering the ease of how he tanked that train, I'm pretty sure we can tank quite a lot more than the train. Superman on the other hand struggled with an oil rig and eventually got himself knocked out when it fell on him.Zod also doesn't have much strength feats asides from his punch fest with Superman. Zod IIRC doesn't exactly have much impressive feats. If he does please remind me again.
Also to achieve a sonic boom you need to reach a certain amount of velocity. The train is too slow to achieve a sonic boom, but that doesn't mean that it's any less stronger than the impact of Kal-el's fist. Not saying it is stronger, just saying that a sonic boom is not a surefire way to determine the force behind an impact.
Those two are completely different imo. Kal's was a lifting feat with compromised footing. I also don't think he was KO'd. But even still it was before he bagan pushing his limits as stated by Jor El and he endured mush more afterwards.
It's made pretty clear imo that the Kryptonians were pretty even to eachother regarding strength and whatnot.
I agree but it goes to show the power/force behind the punch was very powerful. The amount of damage Zod/Kal took/gave in their fight was well beyond the power of a single speeding train
And iirc there was a scene where Hancock flew in fast and seemed to hurt his leg. I'm not sure about this at all mind you so if anyone can confirm or deny this it would be helpful. Youtube is blocked at my work
Originally posted by juggermanI don't make it a habit of arguing opinions 'cause nothing will be resolved, and so far, all you have is opinion.
Which question are you reffering to exactly? You've asked quite a few in response to questions of my ownNo but again the train didn't cause anywhere near the force/speed required to create a sonic boom. Which is what hits from Kal/Zod did indeed cause
Would you agree a hit that caused a sonic boom would be significantly more force/speed than the train would have produced?
I'm going off what we were shown. He can tank anything up to and a bit beyond a speeding train. While very impressive it does not compare to some of the things Zod can do. You agree that forces well beyond the train(your example was planets) could harm him since the train was his highest showing. So why not Zod exactly who has shown force well beyond the train as well?
There were several sonic boom punches duriong the fight itself. The fight was also much more intense than Hancock's so it's easy to understand him being tired especially after the World Engine. He still was no worse for wear after the fight. No lingering injuries or anything. The train lacks sonic boom feats. The punches don't
So back to your no limits fallacy? Iyo could hancock also tank a blast from Doc Manhattan? Since he's shown no upper limit and all?
That's fine but the train didn't have the speed/force required to cause booms of sonic.
It took force Hancock was never shown to have. A sonic boom went off during the snap. Hancock has never shown that amount of power so logic dictates he would be unable to reproduce this action.
And everything you've said is your opinion as well. That's the point
What proof is there that Mary is as strong as Zod? What feats does she have? Point me to a few if you don't mind
You're debating that since Hancock has shown no limits that he has none. That's a fallacy and i disagree with your application of it
Immortal=/=invulnerable. They were thought to be so but as Mary stated it was long ago. I'm sure swords and spears not affecting them would be seen as invulnerable in that time but thethat doesn't mean nothing at all ever could affect them. Again a fallacy.
Zod wins. His feats are superior, his fighting ability is superior, and Hancock has never shown the strength required to actually harm him. Hancock could knock him thru a building or two but he couldn't put him down. Hancock isn't as strong as Kal
The movie depicted Hancock to be invulnerable, you're making the claim that a weakness exists with zero facts to support your assertion... the burden of proof is on you to show evidence of the supposed weakness. Until you have the evidence that supports your claim, this discussion is an exercise in futility.
Originally posted by marwash22
I don't make it a habit of arguing opinions 'cause nothing will be resolved, and so far, all you have is opinion.The movie depicted Hancock to be invulnerable, you're making the claim that a weakness exists with zero facts to support your assertion... the burden of proof is on you to show evidence of the supposed weakness. Until you have the evidence that supports your claim, this discussion is an exercise in futility.
Ok
The movie showed him to be invulnerable to everything throw at him but that doesn't make him immune to everything imo. Where exactly has Hancock shown the power to harm Zod?
By not even being budged slightly when he casually shouldered a moving train and made it and all its cargo go full stop.
Another thing of note, Hancock wasn't phased in the slightest from a .50 caliber (equal to about 12.6mm) machine gun and he slapped away an RPG. Superman's face was chocked back when he was hit with the .30mm front cannon from the A-10 Thunderbolt II.
Originally posted by Robtard
By not even being budged slightly when he casually shouldered a moving train and made it and all its cargo go full stop.Another thing of note, Hancock wasn't phased in the slightest from a .50 caliber (equal to about 12.6mm) machine gun and he slapped away an RPG. Superman's face was chocked back when he was hit with the .30mm front cannon from the A-10 Thunderbolt II.
That's duribility not strength. What strength has Hancock shown that makes you believe he can overwhelm Zod?
Originally posted by juggerman
That's duribility not strength. What strength has Hancock shown that makes you believe he can overwhelm Zod?
Not budging an inch from getting rammed by a train IS a strength feat. Far more impressive than Superman straining with the oil rig.
On that note, what feats does Zod have that makes you believe he can actually harm Hancock?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Not budging an inch from getting rammed by a train IS a strength feat. Far more impressive than Superman straining with the oil rig.On that note, what feats does Zod have that makes you believe he can actually harm Hancock?
I disagree. Usually someone tanking a hit without budging falls under durability not strength. And the oil rig happened before he started fully using his power and pushing himself as Jor El instructed. Besides it's a comepletely different thing.
I don't recall Hancock tanking anything above or very close what Zod can dish out. On the other hand Zod took more than what Hancock has shown to give