Originally posted by curryman
Probably from his feats.I personally don't put him up there with Odin, but it really shouldn't be all that hard to reason why people put Prime so high up on the ladder.
Originally posted by curryman
Probably from his feats.I personally don't put him up there with Odin, but it really shouldn't be all that hard to reason why people put Prime so high up on the ladder.
I'm all for taking into account Prime's feats, but it's only fair to do the same for Hulk as well. Considering the vast and otherwise lethal damage Hulks who weren't nearly as pissed off and powerful as this Hulk was have healed from (in some cases, almost instantaneously) it's honestly baffling that people think this fight is an easy bout for Prime. And that's just factoring in Hulk's resilience to damage and healing factor, not his offensive output.
Really, the only way I could wrap my head around Prime easily beating Hulk is if he becomes a virtually untouchable, constantly speedblitzing blur and managed never to be hit at all by Hulk's fists, let alone his immense gamma energy projection. Which doesn't seem all that likely to me, to be frank.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm all for taking into account Prime's feats, but it's only fair to do the same for Hulk as well. Considering the vast and otherwise lethal damage Hulks who weren't nearly as pissed off and powerful as this Hulk was have healed from (in some cases, almost instantaneously) it's honestly baffling that people think this fight is an easy bout for Prime. And that's just factoring in Hulk's resilience to damage and healing factor, not his offensive output.Really, the only way I could wrap my head around Prime easily beating Hulk is if he becomes a virtually untouchable, constantly speedblitzing blur and managed never to be hit at all by Hulk's fists, let alone his immense gamma energy projection. Which doesn't seem all that likely to me, to be frank.
I address most of this in my response below 🙂
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Some of the crazy sh1t that Savage Hulk has pulled off in the past, rivals many of Prime's best feats.
Don't really see a whole lot of stuff going close to the seemingly careless movement of planets in Infinite Crisis (an example). It is a stupid comparison tho, things like how much effort, especially when the Hulk needs to be angry and as such almost everything will look like a great effort 😛
Savage Hulk's high feats are rivaled by his hundreds of low ones.
Superboy Prime's low feats are basically saying "ow" when he's fighting Superboy and the legions and such. It's low, but Savage Hulk's low feats are another matter completely. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think there's any reason to dispute the idea that Prime's been consistently portrayed at a very high level, and his lows are absolutely nothing compared to that of Thor, Hulk, Surfer and so on.
Originally posted by curryman
Really?Don't really see a whole lot of stuff going close to the seemingly careless movement of planets in Infinite Crisis (an example). It is a stupid comparison tho, things like how much effort, especially when the Hulk needs to be angry and as such almost everything will look like a great effort 😛
Savage Hulk's high feats are rivaled by his hundreds of low ones.
Superboy Prime's low feats are basically saying "ow" when he's fighting Superboy and the legions and such. It's low, but Savage Hulk's low feats are another matter completely. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think there's any reason to dispute the idea that Prime's been consistently portrayed at a very high level, and his lows are absolutely nothing compared to that of Thor, Hulk, Surfer and so on.
I don't see how low feats suddenly become a factor here, just because we're comparing their high ones. And Savage isn't the character being pitted against Prime in this thread, rather an astronomically more powerful incarnation that doesn't really have any low feats.
Superbitch Prime is absolutely not winning this easily, if he is winning at all.
Anyways, the point is that ridiculous sh1t like moving planets and surviving a cascading chain-reaction eventual universal destruction blast isn't proof that he'd beat this version of Hulk, let alone easily at that.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
He said that Zeus' hits compromised Hulk's hf. Zeus' hits were leaking with magic lightning when he was beating Hulk to a bloody pulp. Go figure.Zeus did, at the beginning of the fight.
I don't understand where you're getting that figure from.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm really curious where this "Prime wins with ease" mentality comes from.
SBP one-shotted Anti-Monitor (pretty much a Galactus-level being), killed the Monarch, easily slaughtered an army of Green Lanterns (each at least a herald level being). His heat vision cut through Superman and other near-invulnerable beings like a hot knife through butter. And he is much, much faster than Hulk.
That's my reasoning, anyway.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Try shaking infinite dimensions during his battle with Iron Clad in the Crossroads.I don't see how low feats suddenly become a factor here, just because we're comparing their high ones. And Savage isn't the character being pitted against Prime in this thread, rather an astronomically more powerful incarnation that doesn't really have any low feats.
Superbitch Prime is absolutely not winning this easily, if he is winning at all.
Anyways, the point is that ridiculous sh1t like moving planets and surviving a cascading chain-reaction eventual universal destruction blast isn't proof that he'd beat this version of Hulk, let alone easily at that.
HOTM hulk doesn't gets savage's highest end feat.
Why not? Also that wasn't a chain reaction. That was a single blast that destroyed the whole universe.
Originally posted by abhilegend
The hits were beating the shit out of him and overataxed his HF. That's why he wasn't healing the damage done by some random critters several issues later. Zeus beat the HF out of him, he didn't compromise his HF.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Try shaking infinite dimensions during his battle with Iron Clad in the Crossroads.
Moving planets happened, it's real, it's an actual feat beyond a statement from the narrator.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I don't see how low feats suddenly become a factor here, just because we're comparing their high ones. And Savage isn't the character being pitted against Prime in this thread, rather an astronomically more powerful incarnation that doesn't really have any low feats.
Low feats are a factor because Jake wondered why people were so impressed with Prime, I replied that it was probably because of his consistently high showings.
You brought up the Savage Hulk and his high showings, wondering why people were not equally impressed by him.
I replied saying that he was also a character with extreme lows.
Now you ask me how low feats suddenly became a factor and try to pull Savage Hulk out of the discussion, when you brought him into it.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Superbitch Prime is absolutely not winning this easily, if he is winning at all.Anyways, the point is that ridiculous sh1t like moving planets and surviving a cascading chain-reaction eventual universal destruction blast isn't proof that he'd beat this version of Hulk, let alone easily at that.
Ok 🙂
Originally posted by Magnon
SBP one-shotted Anti-Monitor (pretty much a Galactus-level being), killed the Monarch, easily slaughtered an army of Green Lanterns (each at least a herald level being). His heat vision cut through Superman and other near-invulnerable beings like a hot knife through butter. And he is much, much faster than Hulk.That's my reasoning, anyway.
After Anti-Monitor was already attacked by the Guardians and endured a galaxy busting attack, iirc. He beat Monarch after contending with him in an amped state and while Monarch essentially trolled him and refused to take him seriously until it was too late. He killed around a couple of dozen or so no name GLs in Infinite Crisis before slaughtering more no name GLs and Sinestro Corpsmen, yes, but considering Hulk vaporized heralds with actual feats (not counting the fact they were amped) without even directly trying to hurt them, I wouldn't be surprised if they would get the same treatment Prime gave them or worse. His heat vision is powerful, true, but considering a weaker Hulk has survived attacks worse than heat vision, I find it doubtful it would prove fatal to this Hulk. He is faster than Hulk, yes, but hasn't utilized his speed in such a fashion on a consistent or in character level to clearly obliterate Hulk before Hulk could process a thought.
You're right about most of what you said, but really, I don't think those reasons equate into Prime easily beating this Hulk.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That was a mindless hulk and that was only done because they were fighting in a place which leads to infinite dimensions.HOTM hulk doesn't gets savage's highest end feat.
Why not? Also that wasn't a chain reaction. That was a single blast that destroyed the whole universe.
Of course he doesn't. I am arguing against using ridiculous high-end feats in this thread, not for them.
It was shown on-panel to expand forth into a universe-destroying blast. Hell, it was mentioned on-panel to be a chain reaction:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/MonarchPrime01a_zps3688b49c.jpg
Clearly, this means that it's not a chain reaction, but an instantaneous universe buster. 😐
Originally posted by curryman
What heralds did the Hulk vaporize? are you talking about nameless ones?I'm also curious as to why the nameless lanterns are being mentioned, but Guy and Hal are being ignored. Prime had Guy dead to rights and Hal wasn't in a very good condition either..
Wendigo, Abomination, and Bi-Beast are all, unamped, around low herald (with a case being made possibly for mid based on their respective peformances against Savage Hulk). Hulk vaporized them upon contact with Betty. It was indirectly and Hulk wasn't even throwing a punch at them specifically. That suggests crazy power to do that to them at their respective normal states and they were amped here (allegedly to x1000, but it could be hyperbole or whatever).
Nameless Ones do vary, yes, which is why they should be taken at whatever level they're portrayed at in that specific story. As such, they were too much for Umar in her own realm (they also threatened Dormammu and Strange in the Dark Dimension as well once). Hulk blew them away.
HotM Hulk's "world breaking" is cool, but really, that takes a distant place behind what he did to his rogues and the Nameless Ones
Well, Hal and Guy were in bad shape, yes, but weren't killed en masse like the other less notable and pretty much featless Lanterns.
Originally posted by curryman
Tried it, it was nothing. Pointless hyperbole that we've seen a million times.Moving planets happened, it's real, it's an actual feat beyond a statement from the narrator.
Originally posted by curryman
If you're not going to actually contribute to what me and Jake are talking about, but rather go by your own stipulations of what's being discussed, then you might as well not participate 🙂Low feats are a factor because Jake wondered why people were so impressed with Prime, I replied that it was probably because of his consistently high showings.
You brought up the Savage Hulk and his high showings, wondering why people were not equally impressed by him.
I replied saying that he was also a character with extreme lows.
Now you ask me how low feats suddenly became a factor and try to pull Savage Hulk out of the discussion, when you brought him into it.
Nope, Jake was more intrigued by why peopled(and by that I mean you) think that Prime could so easily beat HotM Hulk. I don't see how low end feats are relevant to Jake's intrigue, especially when WBH has none compared to Prime.
I brought up Savage Hulk as an example of how herald levellers have performed sh1t way beyond their paygrade before. I could have brought up Thor, but I decided to go with Savage, because this is...well a thread about a Hulk.
Which was relevant how?
Nope, but I do wonder why you think that low feats somehow negate his high-end ones, not mentioning the fact that HotM WBH doesn't have any actual low showings. I guess that makes his record cleaner than Prime's.
Originally posted by curryman
The point is that his consistently high feats, that go above Hulk's feats, are not proof that he would win?Ok 🙂
I am genuinely curious.
I think if you look at the facts between these two characters, it's impossible to deny the following:
-Hulk will hurt Prime, either directly with his fists or through intense gamma projection.
-Hulk will be able to take a great deal of punishment outright from Prime and also be able to heal from said punishment.
To that end alone, I really can't see how Prime wins this easily unless it's through uncharacteristic speed spam.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Wendigo, Abomination, and Bi-Beast are all, unamped, around low herald (with a case being made possibly for mid based on their respective peformances against Savage Hulk).
The time Hulk has fought and struggled with Abom and Bi-Beast he's been far from a herald-level character. Please go by their Tier list rankings or use their names.
I'll gladly make a long ass case against Abomination and Bi-Beast being low herald if you really wanna step to that and take it to the BZ or something 😛
I don't need a recap of the story either, thank you. I remember clearly what happened 🙂
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Nameless Ones do vary, yes, which is why they should be taken at whatever level they're portrayed at in that specific story. As such, they were too much for Umar in her own realm (they also threatened Dormammu and Strange in the Dark Dimension as well once). Hulk blew them away.
I disagree with this.
That would be like saying the weaker drones in Annihilation Conquest are herald level because they were threatening the High Evolutionary.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
HotM Hulk's "world breaking" is cool, but really, that takes a distant place behind what he did to his rogues and the Nameless Ones.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, Hal and Guy were in bad shape, yes, but weren't killed en masse like the other less notable and pretty much featless Lanterns.
Those are legit mid and high heralds. Not pretend ones 🙂
Without even getting into the whole idea of how ridiculous it is to expect Prime to off-hand kill characters with decades of years worth of comics and ongoing mother****ing series, as opposed to Hulk's washed out villains (who have each be killed many times).
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It was indeed pointless hyperbole, apart from the worlds that were already shown getting tremors from their fight. Pointless hyperbole indeed.
And it was a shared feat.
And the surrounding u-foes were practically unphased and they were standing RIGHT NEXT TO HULK AND IRONCLAD.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I was unaware that you could put up a curfew on who can talk to whom on the versus threads.Nope, Jake was more intrigued by why peopled(and by that I mean you) think that Prime could so easily beat HotM Hulk. I don't see how low end feats are relevant to Jake's intrigue, especially when WBH has none compared to Prime.
It's easy. Don't talk to me unless you're going to contribute to what we're discussing, or I'll ignore you.
Now you're lying, plain and simple. I never claimed that Prime wins easy. This is a lie.
I'm also very impressed by his lack of low feats in that one arc.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I brought up Savage Hulk as an example of how herald levellers have performed sh1t way beyond their paygrade before. I could have brought up Thor, but I decided to go with Savage, because this is...well a thread about a Hulk.
As opposed to Hulk and Ironclad hitting eachother besides the a nexus of portals.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Nope, but I do wonder why you think that low feats somehow negate his high-end ones, not mentioning the fact that HotM WBH doesn't have any actual low showings. I guess that makes his record cleaner than Prime's.
The middle-ground helps us establish an average level.
Never said that low feats negate high end ones.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Pray tell what consistent high-end feats are these that put him so much above WBH's level?
Abomination wasn't in the Dark dimension...it was Armageddon and he can easily be marked as a high Herald. The guy simultaneously took out both Surfer and Merged Hulk.
http://s287.photobucket.com/user/kingaholu/media/Hulk%20feats/ArmcheddoneasilyhandlingprofHulk1.jpg.html
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/Armcheddoneasilyhandlingprofhulk2.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/ArmcheddoneasilyhandlingprofHUlk4.jpg
http://s287.photobucket.com/user/kingaholu/media/Hulk%20feats/AmrcheddonreleasesProfHulk.jpg.html
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How exactly do you think he "beat" the hf out of him? We see his punches putting out lightning blasts, we see how Hephaestus mentions that since Hulk has been hit by Zeus, he won't heal for a couple days. Clearly, Zeus' magic compromised Hulk's hf in some way, which is why he was having problems with creatures that were powered by Zeus several issues later.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Which somehow lessens those dimensions' durability how?Of course he doesn't. I am arguing against using ridiculous high-end feats in this thread, not for them.
It was shown on-panel to expand forth into a universe-destroying blast. Hell, it was mentioned on-panel to be a chain reaction:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/MonarchPrime01a_zps3688b49c.jpgClearly, this means that it's not a chain reaction, but an instantaneous universe buster. 😐
The pouring of the energy was a chain reaction going by that scan not the destruction. Its been a long time since I read that fight.
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsU-Foes19305.jpg.html
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsU-Foes20.jpg.html
ODGs scans.
The dimensions, the dimensions、 theyre breaking.
