Originally posted by quanchi112Still got that hard-on for the LoZ fans?
I guess the Zelda brigade fears this thread.
Originally posted by The ScenarioPhysically he doesnt have the impressive stats, but SN is more about hax than stats. Mid-Demons are Supersonic and casually flip over 2 ton cars. Mid-Demons << High-Demons/Angels <<< Seraphs <<<< Archangels.
I'll bite. What can Lucifer do?
Copied from the other thread, removed the unneeded things:
"-He can instantly recover from anything non-fatal (not even flinching from getting stabbed), can come back from fatalities in short moments.
-Can teleport, read minds, Vulcan pinch and become invisible,
-He's able to create, edit and delete memories and, painfully to the victim, banish people to an unknown place until he wants them.
-Summoning electricity and fire, also internal flames.
-The ability to kill with a touch.
-Telekinesis to throw people like ragdolls or making their bodies explode. The latter was done to an Angel by snapping his fingers.
-White Light that can go from smacking bodies around to disintegrating strong creatures. From levelling small buildings to destroying towns.
-Last but not least, and how he (Gabriel, not Lucifer) was posing as a Trimester for millions of years.. Manipulation of time and reality.
He can make objects, locations and people from nothing with a gesture. Like trapping Dean and Sam in TV land. And for time there's being able to jump backwards and forwards in it at will (able to alter time if they want, one angle went back to stop the titanic from sinking) and impressively he can throw you into a 'Groundhogs day' time loop for as long as he wants (kept Sam in it for over a hundred days).
Back to the invulnerability.. The only things that could harm him are being burned with a special holy oil and weapons of heaven. Only thing that will kill him is an Archangel blade or Death's scythe, only other option is being more powerful."
Three notes; The Town blast was to be done by a powerful Angel, which is still below a Seraph. And a Seraph was able to give someone stage 4 cancer and removed anothers lungs, did so just to make a point. Lastly Lucifer and Michael's battle was going to raze the planet.
Going through point by point, edited for relevance, feel free to correct me if (when?) I get this wrong.
-He can instantly recover from anything non-fatal (not even flinching from getting stabbed), can come back from fatalities in short moments.Back to the invulnerability.. The only things that could harm him are being burned with a special holy oil and weapons of heaven. Only thing that will kill him is an Archangel blade or Death's scythe, only other option is being more powerful.
At least this version of Ganondorf wields a holy sword himself, and the Triforce of Power is a divine artifact, I imagine it's good enough to count as heavenly for these purposes. I feel safe in saying Ganondorf can hurt Lucifer at this time.
-Can teleport, read minds, Vulcan pinch and become invisible,
-He's able to create, edit and delete memories and, painfully to the victim, banish people to an unknown place until he wants them.
Ganondorf's mental defenses should be able to cover most of this, invisibility may be problematic, but Ganondorf can see spirits. Banishment without a sealing effect is Tuesday. Stupid Twilight Princess only rule.
-Summoning electricity and fire, also internal flames.
-The ability to kill with a touch.
-Telekinesis to throw people like ragdolls or making their bodies explode. The latter was done to an Angel by snapping his fingers.
Until I know the level of those powers I'll just say Ganondorf can take and dish out basically all of these, including the explode people one. Ganondorf has recovered from being exploded before.
-White Light that can go from smacking bodies around to disintegrating strong creatures. From levelling small buildings to destroying towns.
This one is a serious obstacle for Ganondorf, not only for the town busting but because I assume white light is Super Holy. Because Archangel. It will hurt, but may not be impossible to recover from.
-Last but not least, and how he (Gabriel, not Lucifer) was posing as a Trimester for millions of years.. Manipulation of time and reality.
He can make objects, locations and people from nothing with a gesture. Like trapping Dean and Sam in TV land. And for time there's being able to jump backwards and forwards in it at will (able to alter time if they want, one angle went back to stop the titanic from sinking) and impressively he can throw you into a 'Groundhogs day' time loop for as long as he wants (kept Sam in it for over a hundred days).
Time manipulation and reality warping auto-wins Lucifer the thread regardless of all other factors.
Time manipulation and reality warping auto-wins Lucifer the thread regardless of all other factors.
The greatest concern here is this:
Lastly Lucifer and Michael's battle was going to raze the planet.
Eh, I dunno. In Wind Waker he did escape from a time lock, and I don't see a groundhog's day loop keeping him forever, but TP Ganondorf (why) has little defense to someone killing Twinrova before he's born and that's my main concern here.
And sure, I'll accept Triforce powers as decent enough use to resistance of reality warping. If Zant can do it...
Edit: I'm also iffy on statements about things razing planets. People throw around "destroy the world" a lot but when it actually happens you get a life wipe at best.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I guess the Zelda brigade fears this thread.
I would join this if I knew anything about Supernatural. Alas, I do not. Curious though, what is your beef with Zelda, and why the insistence on using partial/singular versions of these characters? I feel like your holding back.
Originally posted by The ScenarioIts more the Oil itself than just being holy. Holy water affects Angels as it does us, nor would an Angel Blade (Heaven weapon carried by Angels, can kill other angels and everything below it).
At least this version of Ganondorf wields a holy sword himself, and the Triforce of Power is a divine artifact, I imagine it's good enough to count as heavenly for these purposes. I feel safe in saying Ganondorf can hurt Lucifer at this time.
(The oil must be ignited.. no thread use but worth saying)
Originally posted by The ScenarioI'll give you the mental defence and possible using Twilight to escape a BFR, still believe invisibility may be an issue. (Angels don't have souls iirc O.o )
Ganondorf's mental defenses should be able to cover most of this, invisibility may be problematic, but Ganondorf can see spirits. Banishment without a sealing effect is Tuesday. Stupid Twilight Princess only rule.
Originally posted by The ScenarioNothing on electricities scale. The flames do have some of perma-destroying a strong angel, just not sure if thats enough to claim it will defeat Dorf. Though I'm positive that this level of internal flames isnt something he can take sitting down.
Until I know the level of those powers I'll just say Ganondorf can take and dish out basically all of these, including the explode people one. Ganondorf has recovered from being exploded before.
The 'death touch' has the same properties as the White Light, so a bonus of added holyness. Still if your 'power' is on the characters level this won't work (An angel tried this on a high-demon and failed), so resistance can be debated for.
He has?
Originally posted by The ScenarioStraight from Heaven itself. Its the most deadly attack force in SN's arsenal.
This one is a serious obstacle for Ganondorf, not only for the town busting but because I assume white light is Super Holy. Because Archangel. It will hurt, but may not be impossible to recover from.
Btw as it can actually be something Lucy can counter, how is Dorf recovering or coming back?
Originally posted by The ScenarioHyper-Hax at its best.
Time manipulation and reality warping auto-wins Lucifer the thread regardless of all other factors.
TV land: Sending them to star in their personal sitcom, then sent to a Japanese gameshow and spoofs of Grey's Anatomy, CSI: Miami and Knight Rider.. with Sam becoming the car 😛
Originally posted by The ScenarioWell this is what would have happened to Earth if Lucifer did not fight Michael and just took over things . Note that Lucy had no intention of razing, but a fight with his brother would have done so as collateral. I mean just looking at what happens when no fight takes place gives us a hint to what would have happened if they went at it.
Edit: I'm also iffy on statements about things razing planets. People throw around "destroy the world" a lot but when it actually happens you get a life wipe at best.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteLock =/= loop. Another note of the time skills is that in the same ep Dean dies out of the Time Loop, and 6 months later Sam begs Gabriel to save him. Gabe snaps his fingers and erases the last 6 months to give Dean his life back, with only Sam having memories of what happened (apart from other Angels, of course).
Not so, WW proves that he can resist time manipulation. 😛 And Ganon is a reality warper himself so hey.
I don't recall him having Reality powers, or at least not a powerful version of such.
Originally posted by Sacred 117
I would join this if I knew anything about Supernatural. Alas, I do not. Curious though, what is your beef with Zelda, and why the insistence on using partial/singular versions of these characters? I feel like your holding back.
Quanchi has only played Twilight Princess, so he usually disallows anything that comes from other games. Even if its relevant and connects to Twilight Princess, it isn't allowed.
I'm not sure why he hates Zelda. Might just be that he hates "the Zelda brigade."
Its more the Oil itself than just being holy. Holy water affects Angels as it does us, nor would an Angel Blade (Heaven weapon carried by Angels, can kill other angels and everything below it).(The oil must be ignited.. no thread use but worth saying)
So it's a special thing made specifically to hurt angels? I'm still thinking Triforce powers will work to at least damage him, and the Sage's Sword has a record of leaving difficult to heal wounds.
Nothing on electricities scale. The flames do have some of perma-destroying a strong angel, just not sure if thats enough to claim it will defeat Dorf. Though I'm positive that this level of internal flames isnt something he can take sitting down.The 'death touch' has the same properties as the White Light, so a bonus of added holyness. Still if your 'power' is on the characters level this won't work (An angel tried this on a high-demon and failed), so resistance can be debated for.
He has?
Dunno about flames, then. Valoo's didn't harm him (forget the rules), and he's at least as divine as any of the other spirits in Zelda since he's technically a deity. It would have to be anti-evil to bypass Ganondorf's durability.
"More powerful" is a little vague and I imagine it can only really be measured in universe. Ganondorf has lots of magic resistance and if it failed on a demon it may not be the same kind of "holy" required.
Spoiler:
Wind Waker's Light Arrows turn into light/disintegrate things they hit and merely stun Ganondorf.
TP Ganondorf regularly ended up in several thousand pieces, but the moment I'm thinking of is Midna removing him from Zelda's body. Little Ganondorf chunks everywhere.
Straight from Heaven itself. Its the most deadly attack force in SN's arsenal.Btw as it can actually be something Lucy can counter, how is Dorf recovering or coming back?
Granted I don't think Ganondorf can really stand up to a town sized blast of anti-evil and stay standing, but he's hard to kill permanently. TP has him reviving something like 3 times in the same fight even with the Master Sword. (Okay, so its more than enough for a win if this destroys Ganondorf's body.)
Well this is what would have happened to Earth if Lucifer did not fight Michael and just took over things . Note that Lucy had no intention of razing, but a fight with his brother would have done so as collateral. I mean just looking at what happens when no fight takes place gives us a hint to what would have happened if they went at it.
That's exactly the kind of thing that makes me doubt planetary destruction claims. Sure, populations may be wiped out but there are clearly cities still standing and there is a distinct lack of blasted hellscape. Yes it's destroyed, but it isn't terribly impressive on the power scale. Even if this is an alternate future where he just straight up won, I really can't say I fully believe the claim.
I don't recall him having Reality powers, or at least not a powerful version of such.
Not super high level, but Zant's fight included millions of gallons of water pulled from nowhere in addition to fully recreating several battlefields from the Light World inside the Twilight Realm. So not to the level of changing physics or altering reality, but it's nice creation and transmutation.
Originally posted by Sacred 117The fanboys who tend to flock around the kiddie game.
I would join this if I knew anything about Supernatural. Alas, I do not. Curious though, what is your beef with Zelda, and why the insistence on using partial/singular versions of these characters? I feel like your holding back.
Wind Waker's Light Arrows turn into light/disintegrate things they hit and merely stun Ganondorf.The cutscene during that fight where he stops to smack Zelda actually shows him enduring it with only a short pause.
Not super high level, but Zant's fight included millions of gallons of water pulled from nowhere in addition to fully recreating several battlefields from the Light World inside the Twilight Realm. So not to the level of changing physics or altering reality, but it's nice creation and transmutation.
Just adding to the list a little. 👆
Originally posted by The Scenario
Quanchi has only played Twilight Princess, so he usually disallows anything that comes from other games. Even if its relevant and connects to Twilight Princess, it isn't allowed.
To discount the remainder is potential CIS because every wielder of the Triforce is eternally reincarnated, which effectively means they are the same person. The timeline may need to be taken into account assuming it makes any difference. Coincidentally, TP happens to be arguably Ganon's most feat-worthy game.
For lulz: The true form of Angels are 1,000 ft tall according to Castiel :3
Originally posted by The Scenario
Quanchi has only played Twilight Princess, so he usually disallows anything that comes from other games. Even if its relevant and connects to Twilight Princess, it isn't allowed. I'm not sure why he hates Zelda. Might just be that he hates "the Zelda brigade."
Originally posted by The ScenarioAngel Kryptonite, yeah. With Dorf's strength and that blade I'm not saying that Lucy won't take damage (he's in a human vessel, think Dante's type of durability), its keeping him from regenerating or just poofing away and back fully healed. Like how the Demon Knife can kill both the host and the monster inside (monster; works on things other than demons), the same knife at 1:13 does no harm to him.
So it's a special thing made specifically to hurt angels? I'm still thinking Triforce powers will work to at least damage him, and the Sage's Sword has a record of leaving difficult to heal wounds.
See if we were talking about the MS, there'd be a better case to be made on the Sword front.
Originally posted by The Scenario(Screw the rules!)I'd image that Heaven charged attacks would have that aspect by default.
Dunno about flames, then. Valoo's didn't harm him (forget the rules), and he's at least as divine as any of the other spirits in Zelda since he's technically a deity. It would have to be anti-evil to bypass Ganondorf's durability."More powerful" is a little vague and I imagine it can only really be measured in universe. Ganondorf has lots of magic resistance and if it failed on a demon it may not be the same kind of "holy" required.
Spoiler:
Wind Waker's Light Arrows turn into light/disintegrate things they hit and merely stun Ganondorf.TP Ganondorf regularly ended up in several thousand pieces, but the moment I'm thinking of is Midna removing him from Zelda's body. Little Ganondorf chunks everywhere.
It only failed on a demon because that Demons powers we're above that Angels. (one of the 3 most powerful demons in the verse at that time) It does them greater than Holy Water does, as its move divine.
He was in Twili particles at the time so.. not sure, potential for regeneration or would it be for that form only?
Originally posted by The Scenario
Granted I don't think Ganondorf can really stand up to a town sized blast of anti-evil and stay standing, but he's hard to kill permanently. TP has him reviving something like 3 times in the same fight even with the Master Sword. (Okay, so its more than enough for a win if this destroys Ganondorf's body.)
I think we might be getting whole body annihilation from this.
Originally posted by The ScenarioYes but keep in mind that that outcome had nothing to do with the planet razing they spoke about. It came from the brothers having the final battle that is Armageddon. All that image is just to show a minor effect of what happens. The actual damage from the battle would be immensely higher.
That's exactly the kind of thing that makes me doubt planetary destruction claims. Sure, populations may be wiped out but there are clearly cities still standing and there is a distinct lack of blasted hellscape. Yes it's destroyed, but it isn't terribly impressive on the power scale. Even if this is an alternate future where he just straight up won, I really can't say I fully believe the claim.
Originally posted by The Scenario..oh right, Zant. Okay yeah, he has some Reality powers.
Not super high level, but Zant's fight included millions of gallons of water pulled from nowhere in addition to fully recreating several battlefields from the Light World inside the Twilight Realm. So not to the level of changing physics or altering reality, but it's nice creation and transmutation.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteDoesnt compete to TV land ahah
Overlapping realities, permanent night time, whatever the heck he did to the freakin' Forest Temple in OoT.Just adding to the list a little. 👆
Originally posted by The Scenario
That's exactly the kind of thing that makes me doubt planetary destruction claims. Sure, populations may be wiped out but there are clearly cities still standing and there is a distinct lack of blasted hellscape. Yes it's destroyed, but it isn't terribly impressive on the power scale. Even if this is an alternate future where he just straight up won, I really can't say I fully believe the claim.
That's because, in that future, Lucifer never had to battle Michael as Dean never gave in.
The show makes it undoubtedly clear, if the two were going to go at it the world would be destroyed. That's the reason Sam and Dean try to stop them from fighting. Its also why the Pagan Gods attempted to team up and prevent the battle. Plus, all the angels say it will destroy the planet. The fact is this "claim" is the whole point of the season.
