Eh, those characters are noted to be god-like in some ways. As Zam said in the other thread, Nihilus destroying Katarr and lifting the Ravager from Malachor can hardly be exaggeration given that they're discussed in the game and mentioned outside in encyclopedia's etc. The CW cartoon on the other hand has been mentioned as being exaggerated. Theres been no mention of the same in regards to Nihilus and Vitiate.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
But as myself and Mizukage_Yoda have explained, so too are plenty of EU feats outside the films.
I just don't agree with this. Yes, the EU includes feats on a far higher scale than characters in the films display. But that doesn't neccesarily mean the feats are exaggerated it could mean the charcater is more powerful than any in the films.
Originally posted by ares834
I just don't agree with this. Yes, the EU includes feats on a far higher scale than characters in the films display. But that doesn't neccesarily mean the feats are exaggerated it could mean the charcater is more powerful than any in the films.
And you're not alone there.
As for me? I believe that if the highest canonical medium shows "the most powerful practitioners of the light and dark sides" in "the golden age of the Jedi" displaying powers vastly inferior to tertiary characters from other eras who manipulate Star Destroyers, black holes, and destroy planets by speaking... the latter group's abilities are exaggerated.
It's positively silly to think that stylistic discrepancy plays no role.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
And you're not alone there.As for me? I believe that if the highest canonical medium shows "the most powerful practitioners of the light and dark sides" in "the golden age of the Jedi" displaying powers vastly inferior to tertiary characters from other eras who manipulate Star Destroyers, black holes, and destroy planets by speaking... the latter group's abilities are exaggerated.
It's positively silly to think that stylistic discrepancy plays no role.
This is how I feel as well. Aside from Luke Yoda is the most powerful Jedi, and Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord.
In TFU we see Starkiller doing things that make Yoda and Sidious' duel in the Grand Convocation Chamber look like nothing. And yet Sidious is clearly above Starkiller by a good margin.
Thus powerscaling, and logic dictates that both Sidious and Yoda, and all the PT top tier for that matter should be capable of at least Starkiller-level feats.
In which case feats from the animated Clone Wars seam reasonable.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
This is how I feel as well. Aside from Luke Yoda is the most powerful Jedi, and Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord.In TFU we see Starkiller doing things that make Yoda and Sidious' duel in the Grand Convocation Chamber look like nothing. And yet Sidious is clearly above Starkiller by a good margin.
Thus powerscaling, and logic dictates that both Sidious and Yoda, and all the PT top tier for that matter should be capable of at least Starkiller-level feats.
In which case feats from the animated Clone Wars seam reasonable.
The problem is that I think the idea that the Jedi/Sith in the movies have to be representative of the most powerful Force Users of all time, especially to the extent that there couldn't exist the rare exception to the rule that vastly surpasses them, is highly questionable and I don't feel particularly strong evidence has been provided that would suggest such a thing.
If we want to have a truly accurate view of Star Wars canon the answer is to scale down the kind of stuff we see in TFU and the Clone Wars cartoon to keep it compatible with the movies, but that doesn't mean that we should apply the same reasoning to the entirety of the EU and so far a strong argument hasn't really been presented to do so.
Well Dooku and Sidious are the only ones in the PT who have any right to be using Force Attacks, since the rest are Jedi and Maul, who don't use the Force offensively. And you can accept those two as simply not doing any crazy Force attacks in the duel. So the PT doesn't necessarily represent a lower level of power, so much as it simply doesn't showcase any of its characters performing high-end feats. The rest of the EU fills in what the PT characters can do either way. The Clone Wars is the most over-saturated part of the mythos afterall. And the Clone Wars cartoon is the only one thats noticably incongruous with the movies in terms of power IMO.
The OT is off the hook for being old. And not having any chances to show off anyway.
It's not just a matter of the movies not showcasing their abilities though, it's that the movies give a very good indication of their limitations; we see them display clear signs of difficulty with relatively low level telekinesis (compared to the EU) throughout the movies and the few times we see them engage in TK battles and the importance of those engagements gives them all the opportunity and motivation to showcase their powers in that capacity that they would ever need and the simple fact that they choose to engage on such a low level strongly suggests that what we see approaches the extent of their powers. It simply doesn't make sense that they could vastly outperform what they display in the movies when they clearly have to exert themselves to pull off what they do demonstrate, and that they would engage in grand TK battles using the environment around them to overwhelm one another in the battles of their lives, and not do so to the fullest of their abilities.
Lol.
You'll never convince anyone to see it that way. Yoda and Sidious have too much support to get anyone to buy that they struggle with basic stuff like they do in the movie and that they're just tonnes weaker than Bane, Nihilus, Vitiate etc. The most we can hope for is to convince everyone not to gimp the entire EU down to PT level. A lot of people seem to want to do that even if it is completely unfeasable and unable to be used in any debate. Anything more than that is unrealistic and greedy.