Originally posted by AuraAngel
A fanboy of Marvel or a nitpicky fanboy of the comics?
Probably nitpicky fanboy. I feel like if the movie wasn't perfect, it was terrible is the logic of the day. Most of the complaints I've seen are more things that don't make any sense or are the people being flat out stupid or incorrect about. Or simple personal taste.
Affleck was fantastic. That warehouse fight was the best Batman fight ever.
Gadot was a great Wonder Woman. I'm hyped for the solo movie. Loved that musical sting.
Cavil was good enough. He sold the action scenes and everything else. No complaints.
Eisenberg wasn't as bad as I thought he'd be. I saw where they were going for with him and it worked as that. The more I read about and think, the more I'm putting it together and it's warming to me. He wasn't comicbook Lex, he was a totally original spin. Luckily I feel like I'm pretty good at putting aside my vision of how things are supposed to be, but I can understand people not being able to or wanting to do that.
Doomsday was what he needed to be. A badguy to punch and bring the team togather. Anyone expecting more is a fool. He was a pretty great fight.
I disagree with a complaint I've seen that the editing was bad. It was fine. I think the scene where Diana
Spoiler:was in the wrong place. It should have been earlier so it didn't break up the momentum of Clark flying off to fight Batman. But other than that it was fine.
see's some Justice League trailers
I also disagree with the criticism that it was too dark and morose. That's the tone they were going for. It's a dark movie. It needs to be to get these guys into a place where they'll fight. The whole point of the movie is that Batman and Lex are going ****ing nuts and Superman is getting frustrated and doubting himself, setting up the conflict. Plus they did have some jokes and Alfred was constantly snarking which was great.
A big problem with the movie was that they gave away so much of it in the trailer. I said it at the time with the second or third trailer that gave it all away and it was pretty accurate.
Other than that it was a great movie. I probably liked it better than MoS. A fantastic 8/10 or 9/10 imo. Some of the stuff they did was on another level from every other movie in the genre.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Affleck was fantastic. That warehouse fight was the best Batman fight ever.
Agree. As far as Movie Batmen go.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Gadot was a great Wonder Woman. I'm hyped for the solo movie. Loved that musical sting.
I dont know about great, but she didnt bother me. She was ok. Not as bad as I thought she would be. So I think the surprise with her to everyone was that she wasn't terrible as most thought she would be.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Cavil was good enough. He sold the action scenes and everything else. No complaints.
Cavil was pretty meh imo. His performance was pretty wooden as well. I blame this on the script and Snyder more than Cavil though.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Eisenberg wasn't as bad as I thought he'd be. I saw where they were going for with him and it worked as that. The more I read about and think, the more I'm putting it together and it's warming to me. He wasn't comicbook Lex, he was a totally original spin. Luckily I feel like I'm pretty good at putting aside my vision of how things are supposed to be, but I can understand people not being able to or wanting to do that.
Eisenberg as Lez was terrible imo. I can see them trying to give him an original spin, but who green lighted : Awkward, twitchy, flamboyant, over the top Lex? There were plenty of better ways to do an original spin on Lex that didnt make him into a living cartoon character. Its like he was playing his own version of the Riddler or Joker more than a version of Lex.
Totally over the top and out of place for the tone of this movie.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Doomsday was what he needed to be. A badguy to punch and bring the team togather. Anyone expecting more is a fool. He was a pretty great fight.
I didnt like DD's look or portrayal at all. The fight was an over the top CGI mess. A horrible rush job that didnt even need to be in the movie at all.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I disagree with a complaint I've seen that the editing was bad. It was fine. I think the scene where DianaSpoiler:was in the wrong place. It should have been earlier so it didn't break up the momentum of Clark flying off to fight Batman. But other than that it was fine.
see's some Justice League trailers
Editing was terrible. You would have scenes pop in and out that seemed awkward and out of place. You had one scene with Bruce talking to Alfred in the Batcave, then instantly then have another scene with Superman on a mountain top talking to his ghost dead dad. Then cut to Lois in the Daily Planet, then cut to Bruce dreaming about the future, then cut to Flash Screaming at Bruce ( I laughed out loud). To the general audience, they wouldn't know what the fuq was happening. Let alone what the fuq parademons are or that flash can time travel and all that forced rushed Justice league nonsense.
There could have been entire scenes and story arcs taken off and the movies wouldnt have been much different. meaning they were unnecessary.
Like the whole Scooty Mccnair arc. Take that away and you dont miss hardly anything.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I also disagree with the criticism that it was too dark and morose. That's the tone they were going for. It's a dark movie. It needs to be to get these guys into a place where they'll fight. The whole point of the movie is that Batman and Lex are going ****ing nuts and Superman is getting frustrated and doubting himself, setting up the conflict. Plus they did have some jokes and Alfred was constantly snarking which was great.
Its not about it being too dark. Its about them not understanding the characters at all. A big part of what makes Batman and Superman who they are is their morals and beliefs. You cant just strip that away from them for the sake of being edgy. You cant make both of them murderers and not bat an eye. Its like removing their whole character and soul from them.
There is also no real motivation for Superman to want to fight or take out Batman before the Martha thing. It makes Superman look like a huge hypocrite for even questioning Batmans ways. Lex also has a pretty weak motive for doing what he is doing. The only one that really has a motive is Bruce.
The Dark Knight trilogy was "Dark" and it was well liked by everyone. Green Lantern, Batman & Robin were lighthearted and had plenty of jokes. Yet they were crap.
So the tone argument doesnt make sense. If a movie is crap then it will be crap regardless of the tone.
Originally posted by Nephthys
A big problem with the movie was that they gave away so much of it in the trailer. I said it at the time with the second or third trailer that gave it all away and it was pretty accurate.
I agree. They gave away pretty much the whole movie. The second huge problem the movie had was including anything Justice League. It was out of place and made no sense in the context of the movie. The email youtube videos of each JL member was laughable.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Other than that it was a great movie. I probably liked it better than MoS. A fantastic 8/10 or 9/10 imo. Some of the stuff they did was on another level from every other movie in the genre.
I disagree but to each his own.
Also I dont know why Snyder thinks that putting as much religious symbolism makes his movies "deep". Thats like newb director 101 on how to add faux meaning and complexity to a movie.
Originally posted by Inhuman
Agree. As far as Movie Batmen go.
I'm really looking forward to the solo Batman film. Affleck should nail it. If we get more fights like that, we're in for a treat.
Originally posted by Inhuman
I dont know about great, but she didnt bother me. She was ok. Not as bad as I thought she would be. So I think the surprise with her to everyone was that she wasn't terrible as most thought she would be.
I was iffy about her physicality when Gadot was announced but I was sold on her when we saw her in the trailers. She was great in the actions scenes. Loved her smirks.
Originally posted by Inhuman
Eisenberg as Lez was terrible imo. I can see them trying to give him an original spin, but who green lighted : Awkward, twitchy, flamboyant, over the top Lex? There were plenty of better ways to do an original spin on Lex that didnt make him into a living cartoon character. Its like he was playing his own version of the Riddler or Joker more than a version of Lex.
Totally over the top and out of place for the tone of this movie.
Well, I didn't see why that direction is so offensive myself. Why not do a totally bug**** insane Lex Luthor? It was interesting at least. Better than the boring as shit villains Marvel puts out.
Originally posted by Inhuman
I didnt like DD's look or portrayal at all. The fight was an over the top CGI mess. A horrible rush job that didnt even need to be in the movie at all.
Well it kind of did need to be in the movie. I mean you'd need an entire new third act without him. You'd need to change a lot of the movie to write him out. He was the typical threat that the heroes needed to team up against after they've had their spat and become allies. No more, no less. He was also used to kind of settled to crux of the movie with
Spoiler:
Superman proving his intentions by sacrificing himself to save humanity, winning back the peoples trust and establishing that he's the real deal.
Originally posted by Inhuman
Editing was terrible. You would have scenes pop in and out that seemed awkward and out of place. You had one scene with Bruce talking to Alfred in the Batcave, then instantly then have another scene with Superman on a mountain top talking to his ghost dead dad. Then cut to Lois in the Daily Planet,
Yeah, they were these things called scene changes. It's when they change the scene, so that you're watching one sequence of events, it ends and then they cut to a different sequence of events. Complicated stuff I know. I understand that it's pretty difficult when you're watching a scene and then they change it and it's obviously a different location with different people in it and you're forced to comprehend that oh no I haven't gone insane, they've just changed the scene! Whew!
But yeah that was one of those criticisms that I mentioned that I put down to people being, y'know, thick.
Originally posted by Inhuman
then cut to Bruce dreaming about the future, then cut to Flash Screaming at Bruce ( I laughed out loud). To the general audience, they wouldn't know what the fuq was happening. Let alone what the fuq parademons are or that flash can time travel and all that forced rushed Justice league nonsense.
It's almost as if they were foreshadowing later events in a way that will only make sense when those events come to pass and giving audiences things to speculate about. Was it real? Was it all a dream? What was with the aliens? What was with the superhero who appeared?
Originally posted by Inhuman
There could have been entire scenes and story arcs taken off and the movies wouldnt have been much different. meaning they were unnecessary.
Like the whole Scooty Mccnair arc. Take that away and you dont miss hardly anything.
Well you miss out on
Spoiler:
a human face to the resentment building towards Superman and how Lex escalates and takes advantage of the situation. I mean his whole subplot was only like 5 minutes, no reason not to do it really.
Originally posted by Inhuman
Its not about it being too dark. Its about them not understanding the characters at all. A big part of what makes Batman and Superman who they are is their morals and beliefs. You cant just strip that away from them for the sake of being edgy. You cant make both of them murderers and not bat an eye. Its like removing their whole character and soul from them.
Eh, that idea about how they character's should be is just how they are at the moment. Batman used to murder the shit out of people. But yknow, Superman didn't kill anyone in the movie I think,
Spoiler:I mean the Avengers murder people all they want, I don't have much of a stake in a no-kill policy personally. This Batman is clearly way more brutal than standard-Batman.
he even saved Lex despite everything.
Originally posted by Inhuman
There is also no real motivation for Superman to want to fight or take out Batman before the Martha thing. It makes Superman look like a huge hypocrite for even questioning Batmans ways.
You mean other than that he was appalled at Batman's methods and Batman was acting like a ****ing lunatic for half the movie, yet when he tried to do something about it as Clark Kent he was shut down repeatedly, frustrating him and forcing him to consider that he was the only one able to act to stop Batman's psychotic rampages?
Originally posted by Inhuman
Lex also has a pretty weak motive for doing what he is doing. The only one that really has a motive is Bruce.
You mean other than his crystal clear motivation that he talks about alot, make up a lot of his character and basically every scene he's in serves to underline? Yeah, it was super weak and unclear. If only they'd had him rant about it over and over and over again or something.
Originally posted by Inhuman
The Dark Knight trilogy was "Dark" and it was well liked by everyone. Green Lantern, Batman & Robin were lighthearted and had plenty of jokes. Yet they were crap.
So the tone argument doesnt make sense. If a movie is crap then it will be crap regardless of the tone.
Well your issues seem pretty unconnected to the actual criticisms I was responding to, about the movie being too violent, humorless and dour.
Originally posted by Inhuman
I agree. They gave away pretty much the whole movie. The second huge problem the movie had was including anything Justice League. It was out of place and made no sense in the context of the movie. The email youtube videos of each JL member was laughable.
Well that was tied into Diana's subplot in general and Bruce and Diana's plots at the end of the movie that I felt was fairly smooth. It didn't bother me, they were pretty cool clips.
Originally posted by Inhuman
I disagree but to each his own.
Also I dont know why Snyder thinks that putting as much religious symbolism makes his movies "deep". Thats like newb director 101 on how to add faux meaning and complexity to a movie.
That was another thing that I did feel was a valid criticism. It seems odd to double-down on a criticism from MoS like that. It seems to be a direction they're going in to make they're characters more "godlike" than Marvels "dudes with powers" schtick. But the specific religious symbolism towards Supes was kind of unnecessary and pretentious.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm really looking forward to the solo Batman film. Affleck should nail it. If we get more fights like that, we're in for a treat.
👆
Originally posted by Nephthys
Eh, that idea about how they character's should be is just how they are at the moment. Batman used to murder the shit out of people. But yknow, Superman didn't kill anyone in the movie I think,Spoiler:I mean the Avengers murder people all they want, I don't have much of a stake in a no-kill policy personally. This Batman is clearly way more brutal than standard-Batman.
he even saved Lex despite everything.
Yes I hear this excuse alot about Batman used to murder people . As it is now in current times (not 50-60 years ago). He has a no kill rule. So does Superman . Thats who they are. If we are to accept that Batman kills. Then why is Joker alive and his rogues?
Superman Killed a guy in the begging of the movie. He tackled that terrorist at super speeds and rammed in through a concrete walls. That guy is dead as can be. So he is a hypocrite at questioning Batmans ways.
The Avengers dont have a no kill policy. They try hard to not kill and to save people but they kill when necessary. I mean they show Cap fighting in the war in Cap1. How can he fight in a war and not kill the enemy? It was established right off the bat. He tries to do the right thing, but will cross the line if he has to. Batman and Superman are larger than life icons. Their no kill rule is looked upon waaay more closely than any of the avengers. Like I said its part of their character. You cant just remove their soul like that.
All the other stuff you posted, I can see where you are coming from , but lets just agree to disagree.
Plus I dont have time ATM to nitpick everything. So lets just leave it at that.🙂
Originally posted by NephthysYou have terrible taste. I hope you realize how silly you sound.
Probably nitpicky fanboy. I feel like if the movie wasn't perfect, it was terrible is the logic of the day. Most of the complaints I've seen are more things that don't make any sense or are the people being flat out stupid or incorrect about. Or simple personal taste.Affleck was fantastic. That warehouse fight was the best Batman fight ever.
Gadot was a great Wonder Woman. I'm hyped for the solo movie. Loved that musical sting.
Cavil was good enough. He sold the action scenes and everything else. No complaints.
Eisenberg wasn't as bad as I thought he'd be. I saw where they were going for with him and it worked as that. The more I read about and think, the more I'm putting it together and it's warming to me. He wasn't comicbook Lex, he was a totally original spin. Luckily I feel like I'm pretty good at putting aside my vision of how things are supposed to be, but I can understand people not being able to or wanting to do that.
Doomsday was what he needed to be. A badguy to punch and bring the team togather. Anyone expecting more is a fool. He was a pretty great fight.
I disagree with a complaint I've seen that the editing was bad. It was fine. I think the scene where Diana
Spoiler:was in the wrong place. It should have been earlier so it didn't break up the momentum of Clark flying off to fight Batman. But other than that it was fine.
see's some Justice League trailersI also disagree with the criticism that it was too dark and morose. That's the tone they were going for. It's a dark movie. It needs to be to get these guys into a place where they'll fight. The whole point of the movie is that Batman and Lex are going ****ing nuts and Superman is getting frustrated and doubting himself, setting up the conflict. Plus they did have some jokes and Alfred was constantly snarking which was great.
A big problem with the movie was that they gave away so much of it in the trailer. I said it at the time with the second or third trailer that gave it all away and it was pretty accurate.
Other than that it was a great movie. I probably liked it better than MoS. A fantastic 8/10 or 9/10 imo. Some of the stuff they did was on another level from every other movie in the genre.