Lord Sidious Feats

Which is why I said that neither expression means more to me. One expressed agony, the other expressed fear.

So we're back to square one. Show me a source that says Sidous defeated Yoda. It becomes semantics when you take Yoda's zero sum logic into account.

Sources range from the website to the Chronology to the Atlas to the visual guides, dictionaries, encyclopedias, and the essential reader's companion.

If you want a compilation of full quotes, I can get them to you later.

Yes, I would like actual quotes.

I don’t have my copies of The Ultimate Visual Guide, The Complete Visual Dictionary, or the Complete Encyclopedia on hand.

“Yoda went after Palpatine in the Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history” – The New Essential Chronology

“Yoda is eventually outmatched by Sidious. Beaten, Yoda retreats into a maintenance tunnel and is rescued by Bail Organa. The crestfallen Jedi Master realizes the Sith have won, and he must now go into exile.” – Starwars.com, Revenge of the Sith slideshow, slide 45

“This erupted into an intense duel between these masters of the Force, a fight that Yoda ultimately lost and was forced to flee.” – Starwars.com, Yoda biography gallery, slide 13

“Darth Sidious overwhelmed Yoda with the destructive energy of the dark side, and the Jedi Master fled Coruscant.” – Starwars.com, Darth Sidious biography gallery, slide 12

“Yoda could not withstand the Emperor’s Sith powers. He fled, regrouping at the Polis Massa asteroids.” – The Essential Atlas

It appears only two of those say he actually lost. Either way, I stick by what I say in the ROTS movie.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don’t have my copies of The Ultimate Visual Guide, The Complete Visual Dictionary, or the Complete Encyclopedia on hand.

“Yoda went after Palpatine in the Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history” – The New Essential Chronology

“Yoda is eventually outmatched by Sidious. Beaten, Yoda retreats into a maintenance tunnel and is rescued by Bail Organa. The crestfallen Jedi Master realizes the Sith have won, and he must now go into exile.” – Starwars.com, Revenge of the Sith slideshow, slide 45

“This erupted into an intense duel between these masters of the Force, a fight that Yoda ultimately lost and was forced to flee.” – Starwars.com, Yoda biography gallery, slide 13

“Darth Sidious overwhelmed Yoda with the destructive energy of the dark side, and the Jedi Master fled Coruscant.” – Starwars.com, Darth Sidious biography gallery, slide 12

“Yoda could not withstand the Emperor’s Sith powers. He fled, regrouping at the Polis Massa asteroids.” – The Essential Atlas

I'll grant you the first and last quotes if you want to play semantics (which you said you didn't earlier). But the other twothree are pretty blatantly conclusive.

Overwhelmed doesn't imply defeat. Yoda "overwhelmed" Sidious with his force push. The first quote says he did not win, but doesn't say anything about losing. Second quote I grant you. Third quote I grant you. That's pretty much it and it still doesn't help because I saw a stalemate in the movie.

Originally posted by ssysys
Overwhelmed doesn't imply defeat.

Of course it does. It's inherent to the definition.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/overwhelm

Originally posted by ssysys
Yoda "overwhelmed" Sidious with his force push. The first quote says he did not win, but doesn't say anything about losing. Second quote I grant you. Third quote I grant you. That's pretty much it and it still doesn't help because I saw a stalemate in the movie.

You're free to disregard what you like, it's not my prerogative to compel you to accept interpretations that differ from your own. If you saw stalemate, you saw stalemate. But the bolded quotes do clearly indicate Yoda's defeat.

And you were the one who claimed no interest in semantics.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

You're free to disregard what you like, it's not my prerogative to compel you to accept interpretations that differ from your own. If you saw stalemate, you saw stalemate. But the bolded quotes do clearly indicate Yoda's defeat.

And you were the one who claimed no interest in semantics. [/B]

You're the one who brought semantics into the conversation along the lines of "if it doesn't indicate Yoda won, then he lost". The other point is what the movie showed was much different than some of these quotes. While Sidious overwhelmed Yoda with the dark side, Yoda did the exact same thing to Sidious. You don't need a quote to say either or in this case because it's indicated in the movie. I'm not disregarding anything.

Originally posted by ssysys
You're the one who brought semantics into the conversation along the lines of "if it doesn't indicate Yoda won, then he lost".

No, because the context of the sentence implies victory for Sidious: "Yoda couldn't beat him, Yoda ran."

Now you're free to wave those implications aside to raise a technical dispute: Well, technically it doesn't really say he lost. And I'd agree with you, but that is a semantic argument.

Originally posted by ssysys
The other point is what the movie showed was much different than some of these quotes.

What the movie showed you, or rather, your interpretation of the movie differs from what is reflected in these quotes.

Originally posted by ssysys
While Sidious overwhelmed Yoda with the dark side, Yoda did the exact same thing to Sidious. You don't need a quote to say either or in this case because it's indicated in the movie. I'm not disregarding anything.

You are absolutely disregarding it, which I have no issue with. Quote says X about Y, you disagree with the interpretation of Y (X), and you dismiss it. That's fine, I'm not condemning you for it. I personally have zero interest in that line of debate precisely because it got old way back in 2007 with Janus, Nai, and Illustrious and I have no desire to exhume a long-buried horse in order to flog it some more.

You asked for the quotes, I delivered. That's it. What you do with them is your prerogative.

I clicked on Tempests post with the quotes and have got to say that your opinion means jack shit Beefy. The quotes say he lost. He lost.

Are you still mad at me?

Good God, Neph, we've said far worse to each other over the years.

Yes we have.

So why the **** would I take you off ignore?

Because we're friends, bozo. Friends jab each other.

You should have known that I wasn't serious; I was bantering with you in the Battle Bar not 10 minutes before.

It's called Belligerent Sexual Tension and it's got a TVTropes page.

Awww, you guys are so cute :3

Some of the quotes seem to be a direct contradiction to what was displayed in the movies. I do not remember anything displayed from the movie that gave any indication that Yoda could not withstand, was outmatched, or overwhelmed by Sidious.

If the quotes are viewed as canon, did I guess this fight can be counted as a win. Since there are different levels of canon in the Star War Universe which level do these quotes fall in?

I think that different authors perceive the same fight in different manner.

To some;

1. This fight might be perceived as stalemate/Yoda decided to retreat
2. This fight might be perceived as victory of Sidious

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Now you're free to wave those implications aside to raise a technical dispute: Well, technically it doesn't really say he lost. And I'd agree with you, but that is a semantic argument.

[quoteWhat the movie showed you, or rather, your interpretation of the movie differs from what is reflected in these quotes. [/quote]
That's my point.

You are absolutely disregarding it, which I have no issue with. Quote says X about Y, you disagree with the interpretation of Y (X), and you dismiss it. That's fine, I'm not condemning you for it. I personally have zero interest in that line of debate precisely because it got old way back in 2007 with Janus, Nai, and Illustrious and I have no desire to exhume a long-buried horse in order to flog it some more.

Originally posted by doct2928
"If he doesn't win, he lost" is a semantic argument as well. In fact, moreso than
what I said

I know. I acknowledged that it was a semantic argument. But only one of us expressed a desire not to indulge in such arguments and it wasn't me.

Originally posted by doct2928
That's my point.

I know.

Originally posted by doct2928
I accept the 2 quotes that say he lost. But in my opinion, the movie (highest form of canon) shows a complete stalemate. That's hardly similar to what you are describing.

Like I said, what you do with the quotes is your prerogative. You asked, I delivered.