I've had this discussion before. Probably more than once. I know that Strange has low feats, feats without his auto-shield, feats that place him below Thor or Surfer, even in his Classic incarnation.
I also know that Kal's magic weakness is often overstated; that it exists, but isn't the insta-win Superman detractors think.
But I think that if we take an intelligent Strange that is utilizing the powers in his toolbox, and grant some kind of edge to Strange due to the magic weakness, that he wins. It doesn't take a simultaneous high-balling of one and low-balling of another. Just a well-rounded Strange using his full arsenal.
Or maybe Superman rage-punches his way through everything. It's comics, so it's certainly possible. Or maybe we grant Kal a speedblitz, before Strange can invoke any of his time manipulation spells or other defenses. I don't see it as the likeliest outcome, but it's certainly possible.
That better?
Originally posted by DigiHe's been owned by many more Skyfather level characters than vice versa. In fact, he hasn't really beaten many skyfather level characters if at all, and even rarer without a plot device outside his power in a thread like this.
This is Classic Strange, the guy that could beat Skyfather-level beings, hold the IG in check, knock Galactus unconscious, etc. This is not current Strange, who has received one of the bigger depowerings in comic history.
The IG was only using one gem at a time. And Strange had every artifact at his disposal.
Galactus was on the verge of death and was almost getting matched by Thor the entire fight. He was rapidly shrinking the whole time and Strange got him at his weakest. Then we have their "fight" where Galactus wasn't trying at all. Then he knocked him out because Strange couldn't handle the images Galactus flooded his mind with. Then in subsequent issues Strange was panicking when Galactus was fighting Agamotto and was a flea next to them, and he got knocked out easily by Khoon (who Galactus assimilated easily). Strange is nothing to Galactus.
But you pretty much described Superman. Minus the 'depowering'
Strange might seem like a PIS god at times, but Superman invented PIS in comics. The guy T-vo'd Dominus who was capable of easily dismissing Kismet at the time who at the very least is on the level of Nabu (skyfather level). Darkseid fiascos, etc.
At the end of the day, shields in comics seem to piss Superman off enough to attack them full force. Strange's shields have consistently been broken by beings lesser than Superman. And Superman definitely has the strength to KO Strange. As well as speed has been a factor many times for Strange.
It's a wash.
The only chance Strange has is if speed is equalized. And that's not me assuming Superman is a blitz God either. It's just that even his basic attacks are too quick for Strange. And he's not exactly hard to dodge either.
Originally posted by Digi
I've had this discussion before. Probably more than once. I know that Strange has low feats, feats without his auto-shield, feats that place him below Thor or Surfer, even in his Classic incarnation.I also know that Kal's magic weakness is often overstated; that it exists, but isn't the insta-win Superman detractors think.
But I think that if we take an intelligent Strange that is utilizing the powers in his toolbox, and grant some kind of edge to Strange due to the magic weakness, that he wins. It doesn't take a simultaneous high-balling of one and low-balling of another. Just a well-rounded Strange using his full arsenal.
Or maybe Superman rage-punches his way through everything. It's comics, so it's certainly possible. Or maybe we grant Kal a speedblitz, before Strange can invoke any of his time manipulation spells or other defenses. I don't see it as the likeliest outcome, but it's certainly possible.
That better?
Or oneshotting abstract death who destroyed whole creation just pages earlier to break superman's will
That's just two of such examples. He has many such feats.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh I agree. But if you're going about beating skyfathers and whatnot route, you're against the wrong guy. Strange beats skyfathers by prep or some kind of plot device. Superman? He just powers through and bashes their faces in. Here is superman vs a guy with the powers of several elder gods who folded entire JLA like nothing and earlier dismissed Zauriel's holy swordOr oneshotting abstract death who destroyed whole creation just pages earlier to break superman's will
That's just two of such examples. He has many such feats.
And Strange has localized time stops, reality manipulation, and defenses/attacks against similarly powered beings. And Superman's magic weakness does exist in some form. It's all in how you see the fight going down.
I think the prevailing wisdom is that Strange wins with prep. Depending on what we grant as standard equipment, I think he still has an edge sans prep. But it's not a 10/10 scenario. Or rather, there's too many permutations of how their powers could interact to say it's 10/10 either way with any certainty.
Originally posted by Digi
And Strange has localized time stops, reality manipulation, and defenses/attacks against similarly powered beings. And Superman's magic weakness does exist in some form. It's all in how you see the fight going down.I think the prevailing wisdom is that Strange wins with prep. Depending on what we grant as standard equipment, I think he still has an edge sans prep. But it's not a 10/10 scenario. Or rather, there's too many permutations of how their powers could interact to say it's 10/10 either way with any certainty.
Superman has resisted reality manipulations from beings far more powerful than Strange like Dominus. His shields would be broken against superman, lets be serious.
Magic weakness? Didn't help mordru much when Superman punched his teeth out
Oh strange would win with prep. Without prep it can go either way.
Originally posted by Digi
And Strange has localized time stops, reality manipulation, and defenses/attacks against similarly powered beings. And Superman's magic weakness does exist in some form. It's all in how you see the fight going down.I think the prevailing wisdom is that Strange wins with prep. Depending on what we grant as standard equipment, I think he still has an edge sans prep. But it's not a 10/10 scenario. Or rather, there's too many permutations of how their powers could interact to say it's 10/10 either way with any certainty.
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This fight can go many ways since Superman doesn't kill and wouldn't know how much power to apply in the beginning (Strange is really a human with shields). Here is how the fights can go in general.
1. Superman using speed and bashing Strange with the correct amount of force right away. But the problem is that Superman doesn't know how much power to apply. So luck would play a role here.
2. Superman underestimating Strange's shields or playing with him to gauge his power level, giving Strange time to manipulate time, space, reality, etc.
Strange's stronger shields is through prep.
His autoshields are something that Superman on average can bypass only if Superman can find out how much force to apply without killing Strange (again Superman knows that Strange is a human).
But since this is guess work then Strange will gain at least a second or two to operate. So fight can go either way with Superman probably edging Strange out in a slight majority of all the possible battles.
