Originally posted by Zack Fair
The thread is about who is more powerful, not who would win in a fight.Superman outclasses Wonder Woman.
How so?
Strength - Superman
Speed - Diana
Skills - Diana
Durability - Superman, if you don't take the vambraces into account.
Versatility - Supes, if you don't count Diana's one hit wonders (lasso, tiara, lighting, etc)
I'd say they are on par.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
If G.L. Scott has the Starheart Superman has a problem.
Originally posted by Digi
You should remove yourself from discussing Superman, and discuss other characters. It would help give you the credibility you likely deserve.
He has been more powerful than hal from the byrne era
Although I was more joking than anything else.
I gotta say, Alan is overrated as f*ck. He's like DC's Doctor Strange. Seems he has some above Top Tier feats but apparently they are hardly reflective of his average.
Maybe it's because I read him mostly in team books or guest appearances but he's been unimpressive tbh for a character presented being able to take a majority over Thor/Superman/Surfer types consistently.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I gotta say, Alan is overrated as f*ck. He's like DC's Doctor Strange. Seems he has some above Top Tier feats but apparently they are hardly reflective of his average.Maybe it's because I read him mostly in team books or guest appearances but he's been unimpressive tbh for a character presented being able to take a majority over Thor/Superman/Surfer types consistently.
You're not exactly wrong, tbh.
Most JSA arcs went like this:
-Big Bad shows up
-Alan fights them with the team
-Alan gets horribly beaten
-Team struggles against Big Bad
-Big Bad gets close to ultimate goal
-Alan returns/recovers in nick of time
-Alan solos or does most of the work
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman's been cited as being the most powerful being on the planet numerous times. Too many to count, tbh.Alan's likewise been referred to as being the most powerful human being on the planet by several sources.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I gotta say, Alan is overrated as f*ck. He's like DC's Doctor Strange. Seems he has some above Top Tier feats but apparently they are hardly reflective of his average.Maybe it's because I read him mostly in team books or guest appearances but he's been unimpressive tbh for a character presented being able to take a majority over Thor/Superman/Surfer types consistently.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You're not exactly wrong, tbh.Most JSA arcs went like this:
-Big Bad shows up
-Alan fights them with the team
-Alan gets horribly beaten
-Team struggles against Big Bad
-Big Bad gets close to ultimate goal
-Alan returns/recovers in nick of time
-Alan solos or does most of the work
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Alan has had the Starheart outside of that.
Originally posted by abhilegend
The only time I know of was when he was touted as the most powerful being in the solar system. Most of the time its "one of the most powerful beings on the planet" for alan. But then spectre said superman was the most powerful being in universeS.
Yep. ****ing captain nazi has beaten him.
Except most of the time alan is pretty useless. Outside Brightest Day where he was amped, what's his best feat in years? Getting his face beaten in by black adam?
Not since 1990.
Flash, Mid-Nite, and Terrific have each referred to him as the most powerful human being on the planet (emphasize on "human"😉. Once they discovered Alan was basically just pure energy and only aged because he "felt like it", they began to hypothesize just how crazy powerful he really was.
Hey, I'm not disagreeing that Alan can be overrated here on KMC. Just pointing out how several JSA arcs often went in terms of plot beats. Alan's last hurrah prior to Flashpoint involved him getting his ass kicked by Scythe along with the rest of the team and then coming back to practically solo him. Alan's had the Starheart for years now, well before Brightest Day. All Brightest Day did was have him tame an even larger portion of the Starheart than before.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Flash, Mid-Nite, and Terrific have each referred to him as the most powerful human being on the planet (emphasize on "human"😉. Once they discovered Alan was basically just pure energy and only aged because he "felt like it", they began to hypothesize just how crazy powerful he really was.Hey, I'm not disagreeing that Alan can be overrated here on KMC. Just pointing out how several JSA arcs often went in terms of plot beats. Alan's last hurrah prior to Flashpoint involved him getting his ass kicked by Scythe along with the rest of the team and then coming back to practically solo him. Alan's had the Starheart for years now, well before Brightest Day. All Brightest Day did was have him tame an even larger portion of the Starheart than before.
Alan has been amped since brightest day by a starheart meteor. I was asking about before brightest day feats.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I only remember Terrific saying so. Issue numbers for flash and Mid-nite saying so?Alan has been amped since brightest day by a starheart meteor. I was asking about before brightest day feats.
I lost my JSA torrent, and my JSA comics are in long boxes in my basement. Kinda don't feel like digging for them, lol. But I'm almost certain that the Mid-Nite scene was during a medical exam of Alan's body once and another separate time whereas Flash said Alan was the most powerful human on the planet at the end of the Brightest Day crossover.
Before Brightest Day, he fared very well against a younger Mordru.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I lost my JSA torrent, and my JSA comics are in long boxes in my basement. Kinda don't feel like digging for them, lol. But I'm almost certain that the Mid-Nite scene was during a medical exam of Alan's body once and another separate time whereas Flash said Alan was the most powerful human on the planet at the end of the Brightest Day crossover.Before Brightest Day, he fared very well against a younger Mordru.
Yeah superman punched an older and far more powerful mordru's teeth out despite his magical weakness exploited.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That was just Terrific IIRC. Brightest day alan was amped as I said before.Yeah superman punched an older and far more powerful mordru's teeth out despite his magical weakness exploited.
He was amped after Brightest Day, sure. But Alan still had the lip service prior to that.
Didn't compare Alan to Superman outside of statements made on their behalf, but okay.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He was amped after Brightest Day, sure. But Alan still had the lip service prior to that.Didn't compare Alan to Superman outside of statements made on their behalf, but okay.
We are ranking them in power jake.
uhuh
Originally posted by abhilegend
Also Brightest Day Alan Scott isn't regular Alan Scott. He was amped by starheart meteor.
You realize the Starheart is his power source, yeah? It's just to what degree he unleashes it. He's sonned multiple team wreckers and HH's when he lets loose. You can ignore the entire Bightest Day stuff and he still has the best high-end feats of anyone listed.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Alan for all his KMC reputation has said superman is more powerful than himHe has been more powerful than hal from the byrne era
Although I was more joking than anything else.
Odd that you respond to my post suggesting you refrain from Superman debate, with an argument for Superman. Not sure what you intend by it, but meh. Seriously, it did wonders for me (with Spidey, years back) when I took a years-long hiatus from him on the vs. forum. You learn about other characters, gain some perspective, and aren't automatically assumed to be biased.
Hell, try arguing against Superman in a thread you think he'd win. It's fun, and also a great way to break the vs. mentality that many of us fall into of wanting to be right all the time. I tried this trick in the SM v. Wolverine thread. Great fun. And I'm a better debater for it, because I learned how to construct excellent arguments for either of them in the fight, when originally I could only defend Spidey.
Superman has also stated that Hal and J'onn have more potential power than him. But I would never construct an argument from that, because it means absolutely nothing in all cases. Heroes are constantly acquiescing to one another like that. It doesn't mean you're wrong that Kal > Alan, but the logic used is shoddy.
You're also forgetting several feats that place Alan as the class of his team, and at minimum an incredibly powerful high herald. Some lip service from Cpt. Nazi is hardly the only thing he did (actually, that's not a feat, so it falls victim to the same logic as above).
Hal's versatility feats are what makes his ranking imo. Until Flashpoint, his PC stuff was still canon iirc, and it included some ludicrous versatility feats. I'd say that Superman has more raw power, but things like shrinking Shaggy Man, creating GL rings for others to use, or manufacturing K-nite put Hal over the top imo. It's all subjective anyway, but my opinion is not without reason.
Originally posted by DigiHis part of starheart. Yes. The whole of starheart isn't his power source. That's like saying the whole sun is superman's power source, so sundipped superman isn't an amp.
You realize the Starheart is his power source, yeah?
It's just to what degree he unleashes it. He's sonned multiple team wreckers and HH's when he lets loose. You can ignore the entire Bightest Day stuff and he still has the best high-end feats of anyone listed.List them. I'm curious what team wreckers and HH he has wrecked.
Odd that you respond to my post suggesting you refrain from Superman debate, with an argument for Superman. Not sure what you intend by it, but meh. Seriously, it did wonders for me (with Spidey, years back) when I took a years-long hiatus from him on the vs. forum. You learn about other characters, gain some perspective, and aren't automatically assumed to be biased.mmmHell, try arguing against Superman in a thread you think he'd win. It's fun, and also a great way to break the vs. mentality that many of us fall into of wanting to be right all the time. I tried this trick in the SM v. Wolverine thread. Great fun. And I'm a better debater for it, because I learned how to construct excellent arguments for either of them in the fight, when originally I could only defend Spidey.
I'm tempted to do so too.
Superman has also stated that Hal and J'onn have more potential power than him.One time. There are at least six instances of him being more powerful than either.
But I would never construct an argument from that, because it means absolutely nothing in all cases. Heroes are constantly acquiescing to one another like that. It doesn't mean you're wrong that Kal > Alan, but the logic used is shoddy.Then produce a scan of alan being stated to be more powerful or even outperforming superman. A young superman killed Grundy in one punch when the same grundy beat the shit out of Alan without his wood weakness and he couldn't hold grundy with all his willpower.
You're also forgetting several feats that place Alan as the class of his team, and at minimum an incredibly powerful high herald.JSA is quite an underpowered team for some team with a 5-D imp as a member. I'm curious about these feats.
Some lip service from Cpt. Nazi is hardly the only thing he did (actually, that's not a feat, so it falls victim to the same logic as above).It wasn't from Nazi, its narration saying.
Hal's versatility feats are what makes his ranking imo. Until Flashpoint, his PC stuff was still canon iirc, and it included some ludicrous versatility feats.His PC feats aren't valid. He was rebooted in Emerald Dawn.
I'd say that Superman has more raw power, but things like shrinking Shaggy Man, creating GL rings for others to use, or manufacturing K-nite put Hal over the top imo. It's all subjective anyway, but my opinion is not without reason.He has created GL rings post crisis too. He hasn't shrunk Shaggy man as shown in Morrison's JLA and he hasn't created kryptonite post crisis. Not that versatility=power anyway.
