Darth Tenebrous Vs Mace Windu

Started by DarthAnt664 pages

Oh shit, I didn't even realize Sith made the thread. Man.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The dude who made this thread is the same guy who lead the forum Ant and I came from (SWF) who threatened to beat the shit out of Ant when Ant was 10, and blackmailed him into making a certain number of posts per day under threat of doxing him on porn websites.

Funny shit 👆

kek

lmao

Mace absolutely shitstomps

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Again, there is no contradiction.

Yes there is. Lucas said Mace can compete yet Sidious could have killed him fifteen seconds into the fight.

Did you ignore my comment noting how Sidious winning early-game doesnt exclude the notion that Mace wins late-game?

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Yet Sidious could have killed him fifteen seconds into the fight.

You're just the gift that keeps on giving.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Did you ignore my comment noting how Sidious winning early-game doesnt exclude the notion that Mace wins late-game?

Sidious being able to kill Mace in the early game means that there won't be any late game if Sidious wants to kill Windu.

Originally posted by twotter

You're just the gift that keeps on giving.

Both combatants are stopped, Sidious has his blade pointed right at Windu's chest, centimeters away. Mace has his saber next to his leg. Mace does not have time to put his saber in front of his chest before Sidious' blade penetrates it.

It's just what is seen in the movie. If you don't like it, I'm sorry, movie is canon.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Both combatants are stopped, Sidious has his blade pointed right at Windu's chest, centimeters away. Mace has his saber next to his leg. Mace does not have time to put his saber in front of his chest before Sidious' blade penetrates it.

It's just what is seen in the movie. If you don't like it, I'm sorry, movie is canon.

Are you trying to say that Mace was incapable of parrying/avoiding Palpatine's thrust, because i think the movie disagrees with you.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Sidious being able to kill Mace in the early game means that there won't be any late game if Sidious wants to kill Windu.

You're ignoring that the outcomes of a fight can fluctuate. Just that Mace could last 15 seconds this time doesn't mean he can't last longer in a second encounter with him.

And this is all assuming we should be looking into and analyzing movie cheorgraphy

Originally posted by twotter
Are you trying to say that Mace was incapable of parrying/avoiding Palpatine's thrust, because i think the movie disagrees with you.

Mace did block Palpatine's thrust, but it wasn't Palpatine's intention to kill him anyway. If Palpatine did want to kill him, Mace would be dead. Did Palpatine want to kill Mace? No, so he obviously didn't try to stab Mace in the chest which would be fatal.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Mace did block Palpatine's thrust
but it wasn't Palpatine's intention to kill him anyway.

You got some inside knowledge the rest of us don't..? Or even some not-seen-before authorial intent as proof? If no, refer to the gif above.

If Palpatine did want to kill him, Mace would be dead. Did Palpatine want to kill Mace? No

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so he obviously didn't try to stab stab Mace in the chest which would be fatal.

He did. you just admitted above that Mace blocked it...

Originally posted by twotter

You're just the gift that keeps on giving.


movie/show?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
movie/show?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaZu15iJE94

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Yes there is. Lucas said Mace can compete yet Sidious could have killed him fifteen seconds into the fight.

His commentary contradicts your personal analysis only. But I think Lucas's analysis counts for a little more than yours.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
His commentary contradicts your personal analysis only. But I think Lucas's analysis counts for a little more than yours.

he said Mace seemed to win

Originally posted by twotter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaZu15iJE94

Thanks bro, rocky being in automatically piques my interest

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Sidious being able to kill Mace in the early game means that there won't be any late game if Sidious wants to kill Windu.

That's not my point. I'm going to break down the fight between Sidious and Mace for you to understand.

We'll be using this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0r4jNhG9Z4) as reference.

1:08 to 1:17: Walking into this fight, Mace is not expecting anything close to the level of ability Sidious immediately displays. He's completely unprepared for the shock and awe that is Sidious' style, which is reflected in his hesitant attacks toward Sidious. If you look at what Mace does, he is primarily probing at Sidious' defenses, overall uncommitted to launching any devastating offensive.

1:18 to 1:29: Mace is on a full-fledged retreat. He's not attacking Sidious - he's defending from Sidious' attacks. You have to consider that, while Sidious has been dreaming and preparing of a fight like this for his entire life, Mace hasn't. The Jedi just finally came to terms that Dooku is not the primary Sith Lord a few months before this fight. However, as the fights continues, Mace is visibly becoming more confident in his abilities, particularly at 1:25.

1:30: The moment you keep on citing. As noted before, Mace became more and more confident throughout the hallway sequence since Sidious' attacks weren't going anywhere. In this particular moment, Mace's arrogance reaches a point where he left himself open to an attack. That being said, the fact Sidious does not strike down Mace, Anakin aside, can easily be seen as a moment of arrogance on Sidious' part. Sidious is under the impression he, as a Sith Lord, is the blatantly superior fighter and can continue this fight for the shits and giggles, but as Mace comes into his own and Sidious' allusion of fear wears off, this changes.

1:31 to 1:37: Mace rebounds. There is no reason to believe Sidious is toying with Mace here. Lucas intentionally shot the fight the way he did so that we could see the facial expressions of the characters for this particular close-up. Sidious seems to want to be smiling, but he's not. He's in pain and is in a uncomfortable position. Mace has the upper hand here.

1:52 to 1:58: Here, Mace assumes a position of supremacy over Sidious, hence the hiss of hatred at the end. What I mean by that is Mace is now the one who is pushing Sidious toward the balcony, not the other way around. Sidious' visible expression of anger expresses this.

1:59 to 2:03: Mace is an offensive fighter. Here, finally, he's able to show what he can do. He launches what I'd consider the most effective straight-on assault in Star Wars. Sidious tries to change the flow of the fight with his Force-powered leaps and acrobatics, but notice he fails to and Mace continues his march toward the balcony. Sidious is visibly frustrated over his failed attempts to reassume the lead.

2:04 to 2:11: Sidious does pretty well here. He forces Mace to switch positions with him, but ultimately his offensive isn't working as effectively as it was toward the start of the fight.

2:12 to 2:18: Here's where Mace's late-game superiority is blatantly obvious. Sidious launches a final offensive, but Mace not only handles it, but then switches their positions as Sidious is attacking. It's incredible.

2:19 to 2:23: Mace's reassertion of territory ultimately ends the fight. Sidious is swiftly disarmed.

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The idea of Sidious throwing the fight is not something that can be used as an actual argument, since it's never explicitly stated. That being said, you have the idea that Sidious letting Mace win and Mace being able to defeat Sidious are mutually exclusive. They're not. Sidious could have recognized that Mace was taking the advantage and opted to end the fight on his own terms (i.e. placing himself in a position where Mace would disarm him) rather than have the fight continue and be outright killed.

Otherwise, it just gets far too complicated. We know, for a fact, that Mace is in the same heavy-weight class as Sidious. George and Nick said so. Also, Gillard's statement that Mace is bordering 8 and 9 supports the idea he was losing early fight (as an 8) but gained the advantage late fight (as a 9). Anyway, the idea Sidious was "toying" with Mace is contracted by these comments. Clearly Mace can give Sidious a run for his money and perhaps even beat him, which is exactly what happens once he gets in the grove of things.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
he said Mace seemed to win

Who said?

Lucas said "this scene always started off with Mace overpowering Palpatine", and he said "You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor. Anakin could have defeated the Emperor had he not got all beat up."

The "seemed" to win comes from SW.COM