Count dooku vs magneto

Originally posted by KingD19
Yet in all 3 movies he never even attempted it, despite it being a very useful and viable tactic if he had access to it. The one time he did, it was with Mystique's help. Which casts doubt on it being a standard.

You can't just say, well I think he could do it. Comic Magneto can, so movie Magneto can too. Movie Mags has a lot of powers weakened or taken away completely.

Is there a chance he could do it? Yeah.
Do I think he could? No. No instances of it were shown, and the one time he did do it he had outside help.

I get what you are saying, but Mystique did not help with the actual feat itself. Mags alone has the power to extract iron from the bloodstream. Magneto has the power to control and manipulate metal. It wouldn't make sense if he couldn't control trace amounts. Even if only a single metallic atom or molecule, Magneto has to be able to manipulate it. Otherwise, his powers do not make sense.

That'd be true of the comics. But the movies ignore a lot, and based on what we've seen from him, grand gestures are his thing. The smallest amount of metal he's manipulated was a metal cup I believe in a deleted scene from X3. But the fact remains that without Mystique pumping that guy full of iron pills, Magneto wouldn't have been able to pull anything from him. If he could have, he would have done so much earlier in my opinion.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic.

Originally posted by KingD19
YouTube video

This is Dooku fighting Anakin and Obi-Wan. Skip to 1:30 to see the good part.

Dooku is not only fast enough to fight 2 of the best Jedi in the Order with no problems, he's strong enough to kick Anakin several feet backwards and instantly Force Choke/Force Lift Kenobi(at the same time) and casually tosses him clean across the room(at least somewhere between 30 and 40+ feet) into a metal railing hard enough to dent it and knock him unconscious. Then he drops that platform on him in a few seconds.

Unlike comics, movie Magneto is a frail old man. That first Force Push Obi fell victim to probably would hurt him a lot more, and if a Master of the Force has no defense against Force Choke/TK combo, Magneto doesn't either.

He doesn't. Just like Dooku has no defense to stop Magento throwing something heavy at him. As I said before, if Dooku miraculously decided to do something like this right at the start of the battle then Magneto will throw a heavy metal object at him. Look at that, it's not instantaneous it takes a few seconds. Not to mention Magento can fly, if Dooku throws Magneto, he may have time to catch himself before he crashes.

Originally posted by ares834
He doesn't. Just like Dooku has no defense to stop Magento throwing something heavy at him. As I said before, if Dooku miraculously decided to do something like this right at the start of the battle then Magneto will throw a heavy metal object at him. Look at that, it's not instantaneous it takes a few seconds. Not to mention Magento can fly, if Dooku throws Magneto, he may have time to catch himself before he crashes.

Dooku does have a defense. Force Precog that lets him block small, fast moving projectiles going hundreds of miles per hour with ease. The Force itself which allows him to manipulate his environment and even will allow him to if not right out stop something, possibly redirect it. And Force Enhanced physical abilities that let him leap around like an acrobat on crack to dodge anything Magneto throws.

It took a few seconds to drop the platform because it was bolted to the wall and he had to break it off. He caught Obi-Wan instantly, choking him and lifting him at the same time. Then he threw him across the room with ease.

Also Magneto can't "fly". He can slowly hover about. If he gets thrown that hard there's no way he'll correct himself.

Originally posted by KingD19
Dooku does have a defense. Force Precog that lets him block small, fast moving projectiles going hundreds of miles per hour with ease. The Force itself which allows him to manipulate his environment and even will allow him to if not right out stop something, possibly redirect it. And Force Enhanced physical abilities that let him leap around like an acrobat on crack to dodge anything Magneto throws.

If he is in the middle of throwing Magneto as you suggest, then there is no way he is avoiding such an attack.

Originally posted by KingD19
It took a few seconds to drop the platform because it was bolted to the wall and he had to break it off. He caught Obi-Wan instantly, choking him and lifting him at the same time. Then he threw him across the room with ease.

It also took a few seconds to throw Kenobi across the room. More than enough time for Magneto to manipulate the metal on Dooku's cape to rip Dooku's head off.

Originally posted by KingD19
Also Magneto can't "fly". He can slowly hover about. If he gets thrown that hard there's no way he'll correct himself.

Perhaps.

Originally posted by ares834
If he is in the middle of throwing Magneto as you suggest, then there is no way he is avoiding such an attack.

It also took a few seconds to throw Kenobi across the room. More than enough time for Magneto to manipulate the metal on Dooku's cape to rip Dooku's head off.

Perhaps.

Magneto is getting choked and held immobile by a TK grip. He can't use his powers that way as they're all clearly assisted by his moving his hands around. Every time he uses his powers, he gestures in some way. Also if you hadn't noticed, a person's first inclination when they're having their larynx crushed is to clutch at their throat.

If you look, it didn't take him a few seconds to throw him. He just held him there after he kicked Anakin. As soon as he flicked his arm, Obi-Wan went flying.

Where is this notion that Dooku holds them immobile come from?

And watch the video, he flicks Anakin at around 1:31 and throws Kenobi at around 1:35.

He's holding them off the ground with a TK vice grip. That's about as immobile as you can get. Also I doubt Magneto can just ignore a crushing pressure on his throat and continue to try and fling stuff willy nilly.

And I've watched the video. The reason he doesn't thrown Obi-Wan till 1:35 is that Anakin getting kicked takes that time up. They couldn't just have him throw him while Anakin is still in the shot. We see him get kicked, slam into the wall, slump down. Then as soon as it cuts back to Dooku and Obi, he tosses him. So he was holding him while Anakin went down, but he tossed him as soon as he felt like it. You can't say otherwise because the evidence is right there on the video.

We see Obi-Wan move his arm to his throat.... He isn't immobile.

If by evidence, you mean your interpretation sure. What we know is that Dooku took nearly 4 seconds to throw Kenobi. Could he have thrown him right away, perhaps. But then Magento could also potentially rip the iron out of Dooku's bloodstream.

Not that any of this matters. In the split second it takes Dooku to choke Mags, Mags could have sent the pieces of metal right in front of the Count's neck deep into his neck. Both can use their powers virtually instantaneous in this case, but only one is fatal.

Immobile as in he can't move under his own power. He tried to stop himself from choking yeah. Are you saying Magneto won't do the same thing when he feels an invisible crushing force around his neck?

Get serious. He didn't throw him because of how the scenes were set up. If the camera had stayed on Dooku and Obi-Wan, he would have thrown him right away. It took nearly 4 seconds because that was the time the camera was focused on Anakin getting knocked out of the fight for a bit. The exact second it switches back to Dooku, Obi gets tossed. Another good point is that in 4 seconds Obi Wan, a master of the Force couldn't free himself and didn't even move aside from trying to claw at his throat to get some air.

Potentially isn't good enough. We don't give people abilities they haven't shown. He's had 4 movies and has never ripped the iron out of someone's bloodstream. You could say he "potentially" has a forcefield too, but he never showed one so you can't give him one.

Also, a bit of a thing to point out. People have basic knowledge of each other before the fight. That's forum rules. Dooku will know to take his cape off. He's pretty damn smart and he'd realize that fighting the "Master of Magnetism" would mean he wouldn't have any metal on him. Feel free to argue that point if you think differently.

Magneto's not a ***** so no.

Nah, I'm going to need proof of that.

As for removing the cape to better fight Magneto that would be considered prep time. Yes, a mere second or two but prep nonetheless.

Obi's not one either. Neither was the soldier Vader choked. It's a natural human reaction to try and get whatever is choking you off your neck. Magneto would do the same thing because he's a human and he acts and reacts like one.

What proof? You watched the video right? Then you know that Dooku held him up right before he kicked Anakin. Then we see Anakin flying back, hitting the wall, sliding down. CAMERA CUT back to Dooku and Obi-Wan. He's instantly sent flying. Would have been hard to keep the impact of him hurling Obi-Wan across the room if they did it when we were focused on Anakin. So the few seconds he's holding Obi-Wan up(who clearly has no defense even though he too wields the force), it's because we're seeing Anakin.

And you want to talk about proof? How bout proving that Magneto ripping iron out of the bloodstream is a viable tactic, since the one time in four movies he's done it, Mystique had to overpower a guard and force feed him several iron tablets so he had enough material to manipulate?

And it's not prep. In the same video, Anakin and Obi-Wan remove their outer robes before they fight. Dooku could do the same thing. It'd be stupid to keep wearing it when he knows what Magneto can do.

Sure he is.

Yeah, I see Dooku lift Kenobi send Anakin flying and then throw Kenobi. The whole thing takes 4 seconds.

I'm not actually arguing it as it is unprovable depsite being a logical possibility. Just like the idea that Dooku could have thrown Kenobi right after lifting him up.

No, since it is his typical gear, that's prep if he does it before the battle. If he does it right at the start of the battle, fair enough. But, of course, doing so will likely give Mags time to win.

Dooku will probably blitz him to hell.

Originally posted by ares834
Where is this notion that Dooku holds them immobile come from?

Erik is definitely more powerful but Dooku would probably be quicker to the draw seeing how he isn't limited to metal.

King was suggesting that choking holds them immobile which would prevent them from gesturing.

It doesn't take a skilled Force practitioner long to snap someone's neck.

As much as i love Magneto he clearly loses here. And hard

How far away do they start from one another? What's the setting they're fighting in? If they're a good deal out of arms reach and there's enough metal debris around, Magneto could easily crush/impale Dooku. Dooku's never been shown to possess any degree of proficiency in regards to speedy telekinesis. Slow moving objects at best. Magneto's fast with that shit.

Dooku's also never used Force Choke. Aside from not being remotely a fast enough kill, he may just plum never use it. If they're close enough to one another Dooku could easily immobilize Magneto with lightning, then zap or stab him to death. I don't see much use for the saber in this "Old West--DRAW!" style of fight. Really depends on their proximity and arena.

Dooku used Force Choke on Kenobi iirc