As a main villain compare Zant's competence to Ganondorf's

Started by quanchi1125 pages

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
But he got it because he stole it after he took over hyrule and ruled for a decade unchallenged before that never happened.
That did not happen to this Dorf. This Dorf knew how to fail and how to fail in record time.

But that's the reason he got it, and he only failed because the other guys cheated.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
But that's the reason he got it, and he only failed because the other guys cheated.
Not this version. This version got it but lost it badly.

Incompetent villain.

They're the same guy. Why do you choose to ignore continuity?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not this version. This version got it but lost it badly.

Incompetent villain.


5. Lie.

Ganon receiving the ToP in OoT is why he receives it in TP.

Originally posted by quanchi112
no, the power supplied by the top which he lost by the games end. All he was some lucky guy the triforce favored while being executed for being too stupid to see any threat.

Zant was successful while Dorf was a complete failure. He did not last long despite being more powerful and having the keys of Hyrule handed to him.

Did Dorf not lend Zant some of his power? You can call him lucky (lolwut?) or stupid when he was a power-mad mortal, he was still a god to zant and still pulling all of the strings.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
They're the same guy. Why do you choose to ignore continuity?
Different experiences which means a different guy.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
5. Lie.

Ganon receiving the ToP in OoT is why he receives it in TP.

Not allowed in this thread.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Did Dorf not lend Zant some of his power? You can call him lucky (lolwut?) or stupid when he was a power-mad mortal, he was still a god to zant and still pulling all of the strings.
Yes, he gave his power to him. Giving power doesn't have a thing to do with competence.

😂

Originally posted by The Scenario
This thread amuses me, and it gives me an excuse to point this out, so here's something to consider: Zant with and without Ganondorf's influence.

First, let's look at how Zant acts before discovering his god.

http://youtu.be/CbApgG2KAYU?t=12m34s

For context, this would be just after Zant was denied the throne. Notice how juvenile his behavior is? He doesn't get what he wants, so he throws a tantrum, runs outside, and beats the ground with his fists while screaming like a maniac. Then, when Ganondorf appears he simply stands in awe.

Next up, chronologically speaking, is this: http://youtu.be/7pNo_AptNPY?t=7m11s

This is almost a complete 180 from his previous personality. Zant is silent, wasting no time or movement as he curses Midna. A curse, lest we forget, that is stated to be from Ganondorf's magic. This is also the first appearance of Zant's helmet, but more on that later.

Now we can finally move on to Hyrule, though it's much earlier in the story.
http://youtu.be/4A9pu8Mrcig?t=4m48s
http://youtu.be/wCg0EwjQNyY

These two scenes are the player's first look at Zant, and naturally he appears competent and intimidating as a villain. One can be forgiven for thinking this is what Zant is really like. However, it is again opposite to Zant's chronologically earlier behavior, before he met Ganondorf. In any case, note for now that Zant is still wearing the helmet, it's semi-important.

For the next bit, I'm actually going back to the first video, if a different part of it: http://youtu.be/CbApgG2KAYU?t=11m

Here, we get our first real look at Zant's face, as he removes the helmet fully. The moment he does so, his behavior changes. He waves his arms aimlessly, twists his body around, and stomps like a petulant child. He's even spinning while he rants and screams like a madman. Then finally, during the boss fight, we see how Zant really is.

I'm sure we're all familiar with the big ball of crazy that is Zant's boss fight by now, so I'll just skip to the end. http://youtu.be/2Cn2DueD_7U?t=7m40s

After a battle of wild flailing and screaming, even after donning the helmet again, Zant is beaten. Now he can only scream, though there's a hesitation to his words. What happened to the Zant from before? Where is the imposing, confident villain from earlier, and why has he been replaced with this flailing, screeching lunatic?

"Already he has descended and been reborn in this world..."

And there it is. The reason behind all of this. Ganondorf has been reborn in a new body, one separate from Zant. Once again, Zant is alone, and the moment Ganondorf's influence is gone he reverts to the way he was before all of this started. An angry manchild throwing a tantrum.

We know Ganondorf can possess people thanks to Puppet Zelda, and we've even seen Ganondorf's god form completely envelop Zant. Is it really a coincidence that the moment Zant comes into contact with Ganondorf, he suddenly becomes competent? Is it just coincidence that as soon as Ganondorf gets a new body Zant regresses into the complete mess he was before? When Zant first meets Link face to face, what does he do? He starts off with a TK blast, of course. What is Puppet Zelda's first action? That would be TK blasting Midna across the room. What did the Zora do to Zant that would make him want to freeze their domain solid? I wonder if it would be the same reason Ganondorf froze them in Ocarina of Time.

It's a pretty interesting comparison, isn't it?

Originally posted by The Scenario
He didn't have the power to do anything about it. As soon as he got the power he needed he ascended to rule. On the other hand once we see Dorf gain the power he loses immediately afterwards.

^Weak response.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he gave his power to him. Giving power doesn't have a thing to do with competence.
Dorf pulled the strings.

Originally posted by BloodRain
^Weak response.
Dorf pulled the strings.
He funded the power whereas Zant showed himself competent. Dorf lost as soon as he showed up.

🙂

All the while doing Dorf's bidding.

On a semi-tangent; What would you say if this was Vadar and Palpatine instead?

Allow me to explain how TP princess Ganon intertwines with OoT Ganon. I am an expert on this.

During OoT the timeline was split into three realities.

The reality where adult Link sealed Gannondorf into the sacred Realm for ever and ever before he reemerged in Wind Waker.

The reality where Link went back in time to enjoy his child hood and had his Majora's Mask adventure. He also (according to my sources) warned Hyrule about Ganondorf's impending attack and he was captured and exectuted by the old sages, but the Trifirce of Power reached through two time lines into this one and Ganondorf got the ToP at that point. An then was sent to the Twilight Zone.

The third is an alternate reality where Link never returned to save Hyrule as an adult. And thus the events of the very first Legend of Zelda game take place.

Originally posted by BloodRain
All the while doing Dorf's bidding.

On a semi-tangent; What would you say if this was Vadar and Palpatine instead?

Palpatine is far more competent than Vader. It isn't even close.

Zant was competent whereas Dorf only knew failure. He had more power but was incompetent with it once he faced any opposition.

Zant succeeded in taking over Hyrule... against Hyrule's army. Not that much an accomplishment. You'l notice that even under twilight the Gorons were still strong and kept the Shadow Beasts out. Ganon had them locked up and ready to be fed to a dragon in OoT.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Zant succeeded in taking over Hyrule... against Hyrule's army. Not that much an accomplishment. You'l notice that even under twilight the Gorons were still strong and kept the Shadow Beasts out. Ganon had them locked up and ready to be fed to a dragon in OoT.
That isn't relevant to Tp. Dorf failed against the sages and then failed against Link. Zant defeated Link.

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't have the power to do anything about it. As soon as he got the power he needed he ascended to rule. On the other hand once we see Dorf gain the power he loses immediately afterwards.

First, let's look at how Zant acts before discovering his god.

http://youtu.be/CbApgG2KAYU?t=12m34s

For context, this would be just after Zant was denied the throne. Notice how juvenile his behavior is? He doesn't get what he wants, so he throws a tantrum, runs outside, and beats the ground with his fists while screaming like a maniac. Then, when Ganondorf appears he simply stands in awe.

Next up, chronologically speaking, is this: http://youtu.be/7pNo_AptNPY?t=7m11s

This is almost a complete 180 from his previous personality. Zant is silent, wasting no time or movement as he curses Midna. A curse, lest we forget, that is stated to be from Ganondorf's magic. This is also the first appearance of Zant's helmet, but more on that later.

Now we can finally move on to Hyrule, though it's much earlier in the story.
http://youtu.be/4A9pu8Mrcig?t=4m48s
http://youtu.be/wCg0EwjQNyY

These two scenes are the player's first look at Zant, and naturally he appears competent and intimidating as a villain. One can be forgiven for thinking this is what Zant is really like. However, it is again opposite to Zant's chronologically earlier behavior, before he met Ganondorf. In any case, note for now that Zant is still wearing the helmet, it's semi-important.

For the next bit, I'm actually going back to the first video, if a different part of it: http://youtu.be/CbApgG2KAYU?t=11m

Here, we get our first real look at Zant's face, as he removes the helmet fully. The moment he does so, his behavior changes. He waves his arms aimlessly, twists his body around, and stomps like a petulant child. He's even spinning while he rants and screams like a madman. Then finally, during the boss fight, we see how Zant really is.

I'm sure we're all familiar with the big ball of crazy that is Zant's boss fight by now, so I'll just skip to the end. http://youtu.be/2Cn2DueD_7U?t=7m40s

After a battle of wild flailing and screaming, even after donning the helmet again, Zant is beaten. Now he can only scream, though there's a hesitation to his words. What happened to the Zant from before? Where is the imposing, confident villain from earlier, and why has he been replaced with this flailing, screeching lunatic?

"Already he has descended and been reborn in this world..."

And there it is. The reason behind all of this. Ganondorf has been reborn in a new body, one separate from Zant. Once again, Zant is alone, and the moment Ganondorf's influence is gone he reverts to the way he was before all of this started. An angry manchild throwing a tantrum.

We know Ganondorf can possess people thanks to Puppet Zelda, and we've even seen Ganondorf's god form completely envelop Zant. Is it really a coincidence that the moment Zant comes into contact with Ganondorf, he suddenly becomes competent? Is it just coincidence that as soon as Ganondorf gets a new body Zant regresses into the complete mess he was before? When Zant first meets Link face to face, what does he do? He starts off with a TK blast, of course. What is Puppet Zelda's first action? That would be TK blasting Midna across the room. What did the Zora do to Zant that would make him want to freeze their domain solid? I wonder if it would be the same reason Ganondorf froze them in Ocarina of Time.

It's a pretty interesting comparison, isn't it?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine is far more competent than Vader. It isn't even close.

Zant was competent whereas Dorf only knew failure. He had more power but was incompetent with it once he faced any opposition.

Refresh memory, how many battles did Palpy take part in in the films?

Because The Dragon uses the Big Bads power and does his bidding as an inferior, and takes part in more action, that makes him more competent? You forget, the only battle Dorf was in was against Link with the MS. And what happened the instant Zant faced Link with the MS? He was slain.