Originally posted by Dolosthe part where he's fighting a specific version of Solar for one. You might as well be arguing that anyone with the ability to time travel can just punch baby Superman in the face and beat him... But oddly enough that'd have more merit though that's not saying much
So what makes one reality more real than the another?
Maybe if he could actually turn people into baby's would he be actually fighting Solar as a baby. (I hope I didn't give you an idea)
Originally posted by curryman
In before Watchmen Doctor Manhattan traveled around basically erasing choice, to ensure that there was no tangent universe where he did not turn into Doctor Manhattan, or some shit like that.Solar wins 🙂
Yet he still made the choice not to let humanity destroy itself.
Yet he still made the choice to leave earth and create life elsewhere.
The only thing is that his quantum precognition made it so he already knew he was going to make all those choices.
Your assertion is irrelevant and doesn't debunk my thesis.
Originally posted by Dolos
Yet he still made the choice not to let humanity destroy itself.Yet he still made the choice to leave earth and create life elsewhere.
The only thing is that his quantum precognition made it so he already knew he was going to make all those choices.
Your assertion is irrelevant and doesn't debunk my thesis.
Choice before he turned into Doctor Manhattan.
It wasn't an argument for or against your theory.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftThings like "specific" and "version" are not definite concepts when there are multiple realities. There's nothing to invalidate one reality or another.
the part where he's fighting a specific version of Solar for one.
Originally posted by currymanNeither before, nor after. Both before and after. Whichever viewpoint suites your fancy.
Choice before he turned into Doctor Manhattan.It wasn't an argument for or against your theory.
Originally posted by curryman
So more nonsense.
Yes, he unmakes the reality that Doctor Manhattan inhabits, thus he unmakes Doctor Manhattan. But Doctor Manhattan also unmakes Solar and makes an identical reality in the process. Both of these things happen.
Originally posted by Dolos
I am truly sorry that you are unable to make sense of the many-worlds concept.Yes, he unmakes the reality that Doctor Manhattan inhabits, thus he unmakes Doctor Manhattan. But Doctor Manhattan also unmakes Solar and makes an identical reality in the process. Both of these things happen.
You're sorry I didn't automatically have JMS' high-school science overwrite the settings on KMC?
I'll pass.
Originally posted by currymanYou have misinterpreted the settings.
You're sorry I didn't automatically have JMS' high-school science overwrite the settings on KMC?I'll pass.
This isn't battlefield removal. When Thor traps you in a realm, that's battlefield removal. This is literally the reality, the battlefield. Again, because there's no definitive way to qualify one reality from another. Plain and simple. It's not magic, in magic a realm is definitely not the original location, there's temporal and spatial reference to confirm.
I can't help it that some people are scientifically illiterate.
Originally posted by DolosExcept when it's a completely different character. You might as well be saying that Dr M wins because he beats Wolverine in a different universe.
Things like "specific" and "version" are not definite concepts when there are multiple realities. There's nothing to invalidate one reality or another.
You're literally saying that Dr Manhattan wins here because you made up a scenario where an alternate Dr Manhattan whips out a time machine in an alternate reality and uses it against an alternate reality version of Solar, and then goes into another alternate reality and kills Solar as a baby. An alternate version of Solar is not the Solar in this thread. Dr M could kill thirty baby versions of Solar, and it'd have zero effect on him. Down the line in say a Cyclops vs Dr M thread, you could say Dr M kills Living Tribunal as a baby and that'd have about as much to do with Solar as what you're saying now does.
Let me make this in a way you understand:
Is Kingdom Come Superman, the main Superman we all know and don't love today? No, of course he isn't. If you kill Kingdom Come Superman as a baby it will have zero effect on the main Superman. Hence alternate realities. If not, the many Supermen killed along the multiverse would have ended Superman's life already
Nevermind the fact that we should just pretend this fight for whatever reason is happening along multiple timelines and Dr Manhattan has a time machine for whatever reason... you're shouting random stuff that has no bearing on anything at all.
I might as well be claiming that Tubthumper starts playing and Johnny Depp comes out of nowhere and dropkicks Jon Osterman as a child which then severs his spine and that's why he loses to Solar
When he went back and observed Jon and Janey at the Carnival; and altered their realities. Were they all transported to that reality? Or did reality seem to just bend to his will.
Think pre-retconned Beyonder. You can't just wave all his feats off as BFR.
You don't like the nature of his reality warping because it's not poof, magic!
It's based on a scientific experiment in which physicists shot a laser beam through two slits expecting to see two slit-shaped lights behind it. Instead they saw hundreds of lights. The particles that made up the laser were in several places simultaneously. They tried observing the particles individually and then fired one beam through two open lines in the wall, and this time,after passing through, there were only two lines of light. Somehow, by virtue of watching each and every subatomic particle, they controlled the particles to have one definite location in temporal space.
It's called the measurement problem.
Doctor Manhattan applies this to everything that exists. He manipulates reality because there are infinite realities (Many Worlds Theorem), he just needs to pick one and its in front of him all the sudden. It's not BFR.
Originally posted by Dolos
You have misinterpreted the settings.This isn't battlefield removal. When Thor traps you in a realm, that's battlefield removal. This is literally the reality, the battlefield. Again, because there's no definitive way to qualify one reality from another. Plain and simple. It's not magic, in magic a realm is definitely not the original location, there's temporal and spatial reference to confirm.
I can't help it that some people are scientifically illiterate.
Look up how different realities/versions are dealt with on the forum.
Doc loses.
Originally posted by currymanForget BFR. Let's say it is BFR. I can change it I'm the OP.
You're confused.Look up how different realities/versions are dealt with on the forum.
Doc loses.
With what we see in Before Watchmen, it's not the same thing. Reality just changes. Doctor Manhattan can just erase Solar like the Beyonder would.
Doctor Manhattan is aware of all realities, all of the possible things he can do, Solar is limited. Doctor Manhattan doesn't need to 'recharge' either.
Originally posted by DolosHe guided one reality to make the same decisions as the original because every other one ended really really badly.
When he went back and observed Jon and Janey at the Carnival; and altered their realities. Were they all transported to that reality? Or did reality seem to just bend to his will.Think pre-retconned Beyonder. You can't just wave all his feats off as BFR.
You don't like the nature of his reality warping because it's not poof, magic!
It's based on a scientific experiment in which physicists shot a laser beam through two slits expecting to see two slit-shaped lights behind it. Instead they saw hundreds of lights. The particles that made up the laser were in several places simultaneously. They tried observing the particles individually and then fired one beam through two open lines in the wall, and this time,after passing through, there were only two lines of light. Somehow, by virtue of watching each and every subatomic particle, they controlled the particles to have one definite location in temporal space.
It's called the measurement problem.
Doctor Manhattan applies this to everything that exists. He manipulates reality because there are infinite realities (Many Worlds Theorem), he just needs to pick one and its in front of him all the sudden. It's not BFR.
And as seen before if Dr Manhattan changes history it will splinter off into other realities, and have no effect on other realities. He had to erase choice and let free will reign for him to have one true reality.
You are literally arguing against how his powers worked in the comic.
Dr Manhattan creating choices was the sole reason other universes existed. If he killed Solar as a baby, it would just splinter off other universes, and again, have no effect on the main.
If what you're saying is to even be considered a possibility.
lol PR Beyonder. OK. It's random time again.
Anyway, that alternate reality where he uses a God damned time machine on Solar can't exist anyway, because it's never happened. The forum isn't continuing canon. What happens in one thread does not make a lore.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftDo you understand the concept of infinity? Somewhere in infinity there's a time machine. If infinite squids were typing on a keyboard for infinity, one of them would, by chance, type The Lord of The Rings.
He guided one reality to make the same decisions as the original because every other one ended really really badly.And as seen before if Dr Manhattan changes history it will splinter off into other realities, and have no effect on other realities. He had to erase choice and let free will reign for him to have one true reality.
You are literally arguing against the how his powers worked in the comic.Dr Manhattan creating choices was the sole reason other universes existed. If he killed Solar as a baby, it would just splinter off other universes, and again, have no effect on the main.
If what you're saying is to even be considered a possibility.lol PR Beyonder. OK. It's random time again.
Anyway, that alternate reality where he uses a God damned time machine on Solar can't exist anyway, because it's never happened. The forum isn't continuing canon. What happens in one thread does not make a lore.
Lol, yes, lots of splintered realities, beyond his control.
*Waiting for the diatribe on how you don't like that outcome and prefer a straight answer when Doctor Manhattan's powers are literally too complex for one. He's dealing with an existential threat to the cosmos, you really think he cares if he splinters existence and screws with chronological events on a cosmic scale?
Originally posted by Dolosugh
Do you understand the concept of infinity? Somewhere in infinity there's a time machine. If infinite squids were typing on a keyboard for infinity, one of them would, by chance, type The Lord of The Rings.Lol, yes, lots of splintered realities, beyond his control.
*Waiting for the diatribe on how you don't like that outcome and prefer a straight answer when Doctor Manhattan's powers are literally too complex for one. He's dealing with an existential threat to the cosmos, you really think he cares if he splinters existence and screws with chronological events on a cosmic scale?
Dr Manhattan can't effect an already existing universe by changing an event. Like, it's right on panel, and the entire basis of the story in the first place
That's the whole reason so many universes existed in the first place, because he was mucking with it. He had to erase choice for there to be any order.
And there is no chronological series of events on a VS thread. This is not a story. Solar and Dr Manhattan have no existing history together, and certainly not one of your scenarios. Do me a favor and point me to a different universe that ended in something other than the world getting blown up before you start making up stuff about anything can happen in another reality. Show me something out of the ordinary that happened in an alternate Dr M reality.
No limits fallacy based on nothing on panel.