Originally posted by TheGodKiller
1)There was no "But" before your "seriously".
2)Concession accepted.
You are right - there was no "but". I can see how that would have thrown you.
Next time I will make things really, really simple so that we can minimise any confusion on your part. No sarcasm, subtext, irony etc - everything completely literal. Anything not deadly serious will be surrounded by "JK!" and "LOL!!!".
Hopefully we wont find ourselves in this situation again.
Originally posted by bbrem123
No
Originally posted by Enzeru
I provided enough proof to the overall context to show that the Sentry was weakened. I didn't do it to inform you, but everyone else who reads through the thread and has an open mind, instead of making decisions on bias alone.
No, after the "various pep talks" he stayed for over 29 hours at home and was not able to leave. He only left, when Hulk had all the heroes at his mercy and it looked like he was gong to kill them. Sentry had no other choice but to intervene.I'm not saying that he didn't unleash his full power. What I'm saying is that he unleashed all the power he had under his disposal during that fight. In other fights, where was not mentally weakened he unleashed more power.
Multiple writers take on something >>> one writers take on something, but then again.. Pak also stated that the Sentry started losing control and became a threat to everyone around, so he insisted on taking the damage in order to keep himself down.
"Space cheese feats" are the perfect opportunity for uber-powerful characters to showcase what they've got.
Thor said that he holds back on Earth, due to many of his opponents being weaker than him. In space he came up with much more impressive feats like fighting Celestials and beating the crap out of other heralds like the Silver Surfer.It's ridiculous to expect the Sentry to use his power on Earth and simply destroy everything, because then we wouldn't have stories anymore. When in space (twice), he cut loose and caused much, much, much more destruction (twice) and now with the Uncanny Avengers he did it three times.
If the Sentry fought Thanos the same way he fought Thanos, then it would be a PIS battle that he is supposed to lose, just like WW Hulk was full of PIS and just like so many other fights are.
If Sentry fought at his best, which we let a character do in forum battles he would beat Thanos due to him having an insane speed advantage, an equal amount of versatility, if not more and in the end of the day more raw damage output.I'm done with this.
Sentrys raw power isn't stopping Thanos who is extremely durable, the only grey area is his matter manipulation but he is very inexperienced at using it.
Originally posted by Stoic
That's an inaccarate attestation on your part. The Sentry was fine before his battle with the Hulk, Tony Stark give him the pep talk, and he we confident. Even as he flies in he is filled woth confidence, as his face shows that he is right before the conflict begins. Your claims are false, Sentry got beat, and the only place that I coulc possibly see his confidence falter was when he gets hit by the hulk. You call others fanbays, you may be guilty of doing the same thing. There is no evidence whatsoever that point to Bob being underconfident during his fight with Banner. You seen to be making this all up to suit your favored character.
Why are you talking about the confidence? Since when does confidence boost the Sentry? He is not Gladiator and confidence also has nothing to do with side-effects from a mental illness, which weakens him.
Also, ONCE AGAIN ... Tony Stark didn't achieve all too much during his talk with the Sentry:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189061-1.jpg
Look at it! They say that Sentry was standing for over 29 hours in his doorway and down below you see a flashback of the Sentry telling Iron Man that he can't help them out due to his agoraphobia and that they will have to deal with the Hulk by themselves.
I seriously don't expect anyone here to be a freakin' rocket scientist, but at least show a little bit of common sense, FFS.
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Sentry was not confident in his fight with hulk???He was so OVERconfident that he allowed WWH some free shots at his face and was back handing Hulk accross the face.
That is a sign of overconfidence.
Once again for you as well ... Confidence does not affect the Sentry's perfomance. If he has a bad day due to his mental instability he will be less powerful and during the WW Hulk arc he was in a weak mental state, which made him less powerful:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189038-1234124.jpg
^ There it says that his power level depends on his mental state and if someone with the power of a god stands for 29 hours in front of his doorway, while there is a giant green monster rampaging, then that one is pretty damn unstable at that point.
Also, here is what Greg Pak had to say on the matter of Sentry taking the attacks and smiling about it:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3310369-greg.jpg
It was painfully obvious during the fight that the Sentry was taking the shots on purpose. He was asking for more, smiling about it and talking to the Hulk. When he was done with the talking, he started dishing out and the Hulk was at the receiving end, until the Sentry stopped and started talking again and tanking more damage in the process.
Various characters got handicapped during the WW Hulk arc ... Zom Strange started losing the control and prefered it to brawl it out, which gave Hulk the victory and the Sentry was in a weak mental state. At least Pak at least put some effort into researching the characters and making them less effective in the fight against WW Hulk ;-)
Originally posted by The Sorrow
You didn't provide any kind of proof, your scans didn't even work. All you did was write a wall of text, most of which is pretty common knowledge, the rest was your bias.
There is no bias in my posts. It's just that some people are not capable of understanding the concept of the Sentry, for which you actually have to think and not just look at a character smashing and already understanding all of it.
Too bad that my scans didn't work. Here are they again:
1. Sentry's power depends on his mental stability:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189038-1234124.jpg
2. Tony Stark mentions his mental issues too:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189060-2.jpg
3. Sentry's illness keeps him from entering the fight against the Hulk for over 29 hours and then in the fight against the Hulk he starts destroying the city (for scans go to the revamped Respect thread):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189061-1.jpg
4. Later on before his Collective encounter he is in a catatonic state due to his illness, but when Captain America orders him to enter the battle he does so and destroys a moon during his fight with Collective (for scans go to the revamped Respect thread):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189329-1.jpg
5. In the microverse where he faces Photon and they start destroying planets, while still holding back and no mental illness is mentioned at that point:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189301-1.jpg
Originally posted by The Sorrow
YesYou didn't provide any kind of proof, your scans didn't even work. All you did was write a wall of text, most of which is pretty common knowledge, the rest was your bias.
That whole scene was about Sentry prepping himself to confront the Hulk, he knew how much power he would have to expend and that it could drive him mad unleashing that kind of power around people. He was reluctant but him suffering moments of agoraphobia doesn't somehow mean he was depowered, not like he was sitting in the corner crying like he has in the past. Nothing pointed to this being the case either. He even calls himself a "god" before he flies off to confront the Hulk, if anything that fight showed Sentry with a level of confidence that was rarely ever seen from him.
This has no relevance to what I said. Characters can have great feats whether they're on Earth or not, but collateral damage is inconsistent across the board.
Sentrys raw power isn't stopping Thanos who is extremely durable, the only grey area is his matter manipulation but he is very inexperienced at using it.
👆
Originally posted by Wonder Man
Sentry can create so I guess that he can uncreate too like Beyonder can make a death not happen even though it has.
That might be a partial win for Sentry against Thanos.
You know damn well Sentry can't create sh** come on man!! Thanos one is death Death Avatar and cursed by her so he is vastly amp, you are speculating out of your a$$. Sentry/Void defeated a weak version of MM and you want to say he can challenge Thanos who is high trans level a notch or two below low sky father level; are you serious or you drinking the koolaide.
Originally posted by the Darkone
You know damn well Sentry can't create sh** come on man!!
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180598-12.jpg
^ There you have the Sentry creating life in his hand :-)
Originally posted by the Darkone
Sentry/Void defeated a weak version of MM
No, he didn't. The proof is up there in my prior posts and debunking of your BS.
At this point you've lost all of it and are autopiloting in full retard mode. I'm done with your nonsense.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Why are you talking about the confidence? Since when does confidence boost the Sentry? He is not Gladiator and confidence also has nothing to do with side-effects from a mental illness, which weakens him.Also, ONCE AGAIN ... Tony Stark didn't achieve all too much during his talk with the Sentry:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189061-1.jpg
Look at it! They say that Sentry was standing for over 29 hours in his doorway and down below you see a flashback of the Sentry telling Iron Man that he can't help them out due to his agoraphobia and that they will have to deal with the Hulk by themselves.
I seriously don't expect anyone here to be a freakin' rocket scientist, but at least show a little bit of common sense, FFS.
Once again for you as well ... Confidence does not affect the Sentry's perfomance. If he has a bad day due to his mental instability he will be less powerful and during the WW Hulk arc he was in a weak mental state, which made him less powerful:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189038-1234124.jpg
^ There it says that his power level depends on his mental state and if someone with the power of a god stands for 29 hours in front of his doorway, while there is a giant green monster rampaging, then that one is pretty damn unstable at that point.
Also, here is what Greg Pak had to say on the matter of Sentry taking the attacks and smiling about it:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3310369-greg.jpg
It was painfully obvious during the fight that the Sentry was taking the shots on purpose. He was asking for more, smiling about it and talking to the Hulk. When he was done with the talking, he started dishing out and the Hulk was at the receiving end, until the Sentry stopped and started talking again and tanking more damage in the process.
Various characters got handicapped during the WW Hulk arc ... Zom Strange started losing the control and prefered it to brawl it out, which gave Hulk the victory and the Sentry was in a weak mental state. At least Pak at least put some effort into researching the characters and making them less effective in the fight against WW Hulk ;-)
There is no bias in my posts. It's just that some people are not capable of understanding the concept of the Sentry, for which you actually have to think and not just look at a character smashing and already understanding all of it.
Too bad that my scans didn't work. Here are they again:
1. Sentry's power depends on his mental stability:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189038-1234124.jpg2. Tony Stark mentions his mental issues too:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189060-2.jpg3. Sentry's illness keeps him from entering the fight against the Hulk for over 29 hours and then in the fight against the Hulk he starts destroying the city (for scans go to the revamped Respect thread):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189061-1.jpg4. Later on before his Collective encounter he is in a catatonic state due to his illness, but when Captain America orders him to enter the battle he does so and destroys a moon during his fight with Collective (for scans go to the revamped Respect thread):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189329-1.jpg5. In the microverse where he faces Photon and they start destroying planets, while still holding back and no mental illness is mentioned at that point:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189301-1.jpg
Id call you some very colorful things if you didn't act so clueless. Your entire argument was that if Sentry was was in the right frrame of mind that he would have been invincible, and the Hulk would hbave lost. The Hulk won. Deal with it. Bob was in the right frame of mind, and he lost. Should I dig up your very words in this very thread?
Originally posted by the Darkone
You know damn well Sentry can't create sh** come on man!! Thanos one is death Death Avatar and cursed by her so he is vastly amp, you are speculating out of your a$$. Sentry/Void defeated a weak version of MM and you want to say he can challenge Thanos who is high trans level a notch or two below low sky father level; are you serious or you drinking the koolaide.
Please prove that was a weak version of MM that SENTRY literally blew up. You're just continuous hyperbole. And don't feel bad SENTRY would kill Odin too.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Why are you talking about the confidence? Since when does confidence boost the Sentry? He is not Gladiator and confidence also has nothing to do with side-effects from a mental illness, which weakens him.
In the actual comics The Sentrys power level has been said to depend on 2 things in regards to his mental state:
1. His confidence.
- This is from The Sentry's second mini by Jenkins:
2. How much power he chooses to access.
- This is stated in WWH when written by Pak:
- and in "Civil War - The Return" by Jenkins where Bob shows he can apparently hold back his powerfevel and increase it at will:
That Handbook entry about the Sentry being more powerful when stable seems to be a straight misinterpretation of what Void says about Sentry's power level going up and down with his emotions and thus Bob being prone to weakness if someone "takes away his confidence".
It seems pretty clear from that scan that Jenkins did not intend for "mental instability" to make Bob weak - just prone too large variations in power.
The VOID is all about saving his ass right there... He's trying to say anything that may register a response in his favor. Although, there may be something to some sort of confidence fluctuation with ones mental instability. But, that statement does in no way state that a potential confidence problem effects SENTRY's power levels; whereas at numerous times it's been stated that his mental instability DOES.
Originally posted by Tony Stark
The VOID is all about saving his ass right there... He's trying to say anything that may register a response in his favor. Although, there may be something to some sort of confidence fluctuation with ones mental instability. But, that statement does in no way state that a potential confidence problem effects SENTRY's power levels; whereas at numerous times it's been stated that his mental instability DOES.
Ironically I think the complete opposite is true. I've done this dance a few times and, to the best of my knowledge, Sentry's power levels have never been stated in an actual comic book to be linked to his mental stability. Not in the sense that "Sentrys power level goes down when he is mentally/emotionaly unstable". In fact the above scans are the sum total thats been printed on the matter before the Molecule Man stuff, again to the best of my knowledge.
The only statements that Sentry gets less powerful when unstable seem to come from
a) the Handbook scan previously posted (which ironically Im 90% sure was based on the scan of Void saying Sentrys powerlevel was tied to his confidence)
b) posters on message boards repeating it amongst themselves until it became "something everyone knows"
In other words - I'm saying the idea is a myth. Now I'm not infallible and The Sentry's continuity/personal history is very messy so its possible I've missed something. But if there really are numerous, in continuity statements asserting that Sentry becomes less powerful when he is emotionally unstable then it shouldnt be hard for someone to produce one of them.
As it is though Voids words here seem to be the best evidence we have on the matter so Im a little more reluctant to dismisss them. That is of course apart from the other references to Sentry increasing his powerlevel at will.
Originally posted by Fifthchild
You are right - there was no "but". I can see how that would have thrown you.Next time I will make things really, really simple so that we can minimise any confusion on your part. No sarcasm, subtext, irony etc - everything completely literal. Anything not deadly serious will be surrounded by "JK!" and "LOL!!!".
Hopefully we wont find ourselves in this situation again.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Concession accepted.
Originally posted by Enzeru
There is no bias in my posts. It's just that some people are not capable of understanding the concept of the Sentry, for which you actually have to think and not just look at a character smashing and already understanding all of it.Too bad that my scans didn't work. Here are they again:
1. Sentry's power depends on his mental stability:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189038-1234124.jpg2. Tony Stark mentions his mental issues too:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189060-2.jpg3. Sentry's illness keeps him from entering the fight against the Hulk for over 29 hours and then in the fight against the Hulk he starts destroying the city (for scans go to the revamped Respect thread):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189061-1.jpg4. Later on before his Collective encounter he is in a catatonic state due to his illness, but when Captain America orders him to enter the battle he does so and destroys a moon during his fight with Collective (for scans go to the revamped Respect thread):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189329-1.jpg5. In the microverse where he faces Photon and they start destroying planets, while still holding back and no mental illness is mentioned at that point:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189301-1.jpg
Originally posted by Fifthchild
Now I'm not infallible and The Sentry's continuity/personal history is very messy so its possible I've missed something. But if there really are numerous, in continuity statements asserting that Sentry becomes less powerful when he is emotionally unstable then it shouldnt be hard for someone to produce one of them.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Why are you talking about the confidence? Since when does confidence boost the Sentry? He is not Gladiator and confidence also has nothing to do with side-effects from a mental illness, which weakens him.Also, ONCE AGAIN ... Tony Stark didn't achieve all too much during his talk with the Sentry:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189061-1.jpg
Look at it! They say that Sentry was standing for over 29 hours in his doorway and down below you see a flashback of the Sentry telling Iron Man that he can't help them out due to his agoraphobia and that they will have to deal with the Hulk by themselves.
I seriously don't expect anyone here to be a freakin' rocket scientist, but at least show a little bit of common sense, FFS.
Once again for you as well ... Confidence does not affect the Sentry's perfomance. If he has a bad day due to his mental instability he will be less powerful and during the WW Hulk arc he was in a weak mental state, which made him less powerful:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189038-1234124.jpg
^ There it says that his power level depends on his mental state and if someone with the power of a god stands for 29 hours in front of his doorway, while there is a giant green monster rampaging, then that one is pretty damn unstable at that point.
Also, here is what Greg Pak had to say on the matter of Sentry taking the attacks and smiling about it:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3310369-greg.jpg
It was painfully obvious during the fight that the Sentry was taking the shots on purpose. He was asking for more, smiling about it and talking to the Hulk. When he was done with the talking, he started dishing out and the Hulk was at the receiving end, until the Sentry stopped and started talking again and tanking more damage in the process.
Various characters got handicapped during the WW Hulk arc ... Zom Strange started losing the control and prefered it to brawl it out, which gave Hulk the victory and the Sentry was in a weak mental state. At least Pak at least put some effort into researching the characters and making them less effective in the fight against WW Hulk ;-)
Definition of Confidence: "the state or quality of being certain"
Confidence has to do with your state of mind, and he got the pep talk to build up his confidence so he could use his power.
if you are not in the right state of mind you are not confident, plain and simple.
I do agree with you that many characters just GO into slug mode VS The Hulk and they often forget their other powers, but Sentry on that fight vs WWH was in the right state of mind, it is just that Hulk happen to punch the Sentry out of Bob, because an overconfident Sentry decided to slug it out with the Hulk.
Also remember (and I am going to hate my self for saying this) that Hulk already entered into this fight AFTER the fact that he faced, the 2nd rate avengers, the FF, Ghost Rider, X-men, BB impostor, Zom, the gamma corps and so on, AND SENTRY ENTERED INTO THIS FIGHT FRESH
Originally posted by StoicThis is your opinion. The characters history says otherwise.
Id call you some very colorful things if you didn't act so clueless. Your entire argument was that if Sentry was was in the right frrame of mind that he would have been invincible, and the Hulk would hbave lost. The Hulk won. Deal with it. Bob was in the right frame of mind, and he lost. Should I dig up your very words in this very thread?
