Did Luicfer MorningStar create_Multiverse? Or he create?_Universe???

Originally posted by kevdude
He gave them roles to fulfill but he is the maker of everything, they are not, they do not worship themselves but The Voice. Preacher is not in DC continuity so I know that doesn't count and don't know anything about the invisibles so idk. Synnar tells the story so its hard to believe him from what we already know.

Mike Carey showed it a few times in the Lucifer comic where another creation before Gods creation, but those failed creations do not matter any longer since YHWH/The Presence is eternal and creates perfect one's. Just 2 instances of the other creations. 👆

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hmm.... it's funny you should say that about preacher, considering it was referenced in the 2010 DC handbook (a random example):

http://i.imgur.com/avis8gm.jpg?1

it does however show crossovers but i can assure you those have references as well, i can prove it.

and the saint was even seen in DC's hitman #42:

http://i.imgur.com/cqtGqaE.jpg

i can show you multiple references from several other issues of the series.

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your 1st scan doesn't contradict anything. It tells us without yahweh there wouldn't be anything which is true because yawheh was the one who created lucifer and michael, who in turn, created the cosmos.

your 2nd scan is refutable, i can say that i created a world of misery and pain, does that mean we have to take it literally? nope. Though even IF we take that literally you do realize that i already provided on panel evidence that says lucifer and michael were the ones who created it, right? in which case we resort to bios, which clearly says that lucifer and michael were the ones who created it and not yahweh.

your 3rd scan doesn't contradict anything either, since it tells us that lucifer is an aspect of God, which is true he does embody God's will.

Good to know that i remembered lucifer #75 incorrectly, in which Yahweh merely says that he is lucifer's (and the host's) maker, while in the very same page he mentions that Michael will release the energy and Lucifer weave's it into suns:

http://i.imgur.com/ecgcBa5.jpg

And this is what was confirmed by the bio!

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i know that there are other creations (universes), in fact there are millions of them (which are represented by the mirrors), which are inside Yahweh's totality of creation. Lucifer #37:

http://i.imgur.com/qYnOJ1z.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/H7UopQl.jpg

what i was saying is that if there was a creation before the totality of Yahweh's creation.

Though your second scan is probably true seeing how it was actually the silk man who emerged from that particular creation.

btw, the reason it is referred to as being Yahweh's creation and not Lucifer's and Michael's is because it was created under Yahweh's orders unlike the one in Lucifer #13.

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Do you honestly believe that, aside from the ones i already posted, Synnar is the only other creation story??

there's a reason i only posted creation stories from vertigo titles (and i have more), i didn't even go into DC.

But you can go ahead and give me the go, and you'll have at least half a dozen creation stories on your hands to debunk, not that you can, because not only are they shown on panel but - at least some of them - are also confirmed by the bios/handbooks/encyclopedias/secret origins files.

All you have to do is give me the go.

Multiverse

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I think to find the answer you have to look inside yourself

Originally posted by operator616
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hmm.... it's funny you should say that about preacher, considering it was referenced in the 2010 DC handbook (a random example):

http://i.imgur.com/avis8gm.jpg?1

it does however show crossovers but i can assure you those have references as well, i can prove it.

and the saint was even seen in DC's hitman #42:

http://i.imgur.com/cqtGqaE.jpg

i can show you multiple references from several other issues of the series.

--

your 1st scan doesn't contradict anything. It tells us without yahweh there wouldn't be anything which is true because yawheh was the one who created lucifer and michael, who in turn, created the cosmos.

your 2nd scan is refutable, i can say that i created a world of misery and pain, does that mean we have to take it literally? nope. Though even IF we take that literally you do realize that i already provided on panel evidence that says lucifer and michael were the ones who created it, right? in which case we resort to bios, which clearly says that lucifer and michael were the ones who created it and not yahweh.

your 3rd scan doesn't contradict anything either, since it tells us that lucifer is an aspect of God, which is true he does embody God's will.

Good to know that i remembered lucifer #75 incorrectly, in which Yahweh merely says that he is lucifer's (and the host's) maker, while in the very same page he mentions that Michael will release the energy and Lucifer weave's it into suns:

http://i.imgur.com/ecgcBa5.jpg

And this is what was confirmed by the bio!

--

i know that there are other creations (universes), in fact there are millions of them (which are represented by the mirrors), which are inside Yahweh's totality of creation. Lucifer #37:

http://i.imgur.com/qYnOJ1z.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/H7UopQl.jpg

what i was saying is that if there was a creation before the totality of Yahweh's creation.

Though your second scan is probably true seeing how it was actually the silk man who emerged from that particular creation.

btw, the reason it is referred to as being Yahweh's creation and not Lucifer's and Michael's is because it was created under Yahweh's orders unlike the one in Lucifer #13.

--

Do you honestly believe that, aside from the ones i already posted, Synnar is the only other creation story??

there's a reason i only posted creation stories from vertigo titles (and i have more), i didn't even go into DC.

But you can go ahead and give me the go, and you'll have at least half a dozen creation stories on your hands to debunk, not that you can, because not only are they shown on panel but - at least some of them - are also confirmed by the bios/handbooks/encyclopedias/secret origins files.

All you have to do is give me the go.

I think you are getting events mixed up, it was the physical universe that Michael, Lucifer and Gabriel made under their Father's supervision, not the spiritual/metaphysical plane's that The Source/The Presence/YHWH created. I know there is other creation story's, but just take them as not true because DC itself has said the Judeo-Christian mythology sits on top. It was fun to discuss this with you.
🙂

btw Lucifer created a multiverse imo

Originally posted by kevdude
The Source/The Presence/YHWH created. I know there is other creation story's, but just take them as not true because DC itself has said the Judeo-Christian mythology sits on top.
btw Lucifer created a multiverse imo

It was fun to discuss this with you.

The source is not the same as the presence, unless we're talking about Kirby's/Byrne's Source (which could be or could be not the same as God, though there were heavy implications that it does). the one that appeared in Lucifer #19 (or something close to that issue) for instance, is certainly not the presence. But it's generally portrayed as being something close to God.
Judeo-Christian cosmology is the one used by most of the writers, that's true, however many writers choose to ignore it and create a cosmology of their own. Examples (only DC, im setting aside vertigo, and wildstorm since they're separate multiverses)
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Morrison has his own cosmology which he showed in superman beyond, this was even acknowledged by the handbooks (secret origins files). Earlier in his JLA, he had referenced Allah as being the creator (this event was even referenced in the 2008 encyclopedia), while at the same time having referenced the presence.
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Kirby also has his own cosmology with his 4th world, which goes back to the early 70's and emphasized heavily in the 1997 genesis arc. Which was acknowledged by the handbooks as well.
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Freisher also has a personal Dc cosmology which he introduced in the late 80's (warlord series).
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the Synnar cosmology which was created by starlin in 2008 this one was a multiversal creation story, which contradicts........everything in dc.
The starlin and Freisher cosmologies weren't confirmed by any secondary evidence, the rest, were.
I also remember that in the owaw story there was a reference to multiple creators/makers at once.
And this list goes on....
feel free to ask for scans, i have them all.
im cool with people believing that lucifer created a multiverse.

Likewise.