Originally posted by DarkSaint85Super Skrull has liberated and conquered worlds. He's led forces through galaxy-spanning wars. His experience in leading less formidable forces against greater odds -- normal Skrull soldiers (sometimes with some superpowered allianced forces) -- doesn't automatically make him worse at leading superior forces against lesser odds.
He led...but like I alluded in my post, it never was 1000 sorcerer Supremes with hulk anger issues and the power cosmic, with 1000 FF skrull etc etc.My point still stands. Examples of his experience with dealing with1000 hulks etc?
Is that the conclusion you're trying to draw? That you can be so inept a commander, the greater the army and arsenal you give him, the worse off he will be? Like, if you gave Cap a huge super-army of amped Avengers, Cap's lack of experience of leading that powerful a force will actually counteract and reduce the innate effectiveness of his army? Or is this only aimed at Kl'Rt based on absolutely no comics whatsoever?
So what exactly is your point? Because I'm pretty sure I know what your goal is: trying to deflect from the utter non-factor that a precog like Madame Xanadu will be in such a scenario based on her entire career ever.
Well considering DCnU Xanadu has had a handful of appearances, and she's managed to precog a major event (the only non effect being due to the opposition taking her out beforehand), why would she be a nonfactor here?
Its not like Constantine or anyone else in JLD ignore her. She has demonstrated her ability to foresee big events before, and she has demonstrated how people listen to her.
Or are you arguing somehow, she wouldn't see this coming (despite it being her sole power) or that somehow, plot dictates that she won't be able to get her message across?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85She precogged a major event and ended up being of absolutely no consequence. Granted, she also apparently couldn't be bothered by the multitude of deaths during Throne of Atlantis or Darkseid's first invasion or the fall of the Amazons or the Wrath of the First Lantern, etc. But at least she was useless in one of these big events she precogged? Counts for something, I guess?
Well considering DCnU Xanadu has had a handful of appearances, and she's managed to precog a major event (the only non effect being due to the opposition taking her out beforehand), why would she be a nonfactor here?Its not like Constantine or anyone else in JLD ignore her. She has demonstrated her ability to foresee big events before, and she has demonstrated how people listen to her.
Or are you arguing somehow, she wouldn't see this coming (despite it being her sole power) or that somehow, plot dictates that she won't be able to get her message across?
So I agree she can be absolutely of no use. Just like her pre-DCnU counterpart many times over.
I agree that Madame Xanadu has the ability to precog an entire event and have absolutely no relevance to it. Because she has in fact, been of no relevance in comics. Granted, I base this assessment on actual historical facts, rather than fabricated suppositions that Madame Xanadu will end up making DC Earth's resistance worse somehow... just because.
^ The question is why should she be of consequence? Granted, I already asked for proof of any feats of Madame Xanadu thwarting alien invasions, or all-out war, or... y'know... anything that even comes close to the nature and/or scale of this hypothetical.
Based on the complete nothing I've received in responses, I assumed there was no proof.
As have I with Super Skrull managing 1000 Hulks who are also Sorcerer Supremes with the speed of Surfer.
None.
Incidentally, your earlier point is very relevant. Just because you canl lead a brigade or unit or however many Skrulls, does not equip you for dealing with Hulks. Otherwise, General Ross would have no issues whatsoever.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Super Skrull has in fact, led super-powered forces into war and combat. Even on a galactic scale. So if you are trying to argue the absurd, i.e., Super Skrull being a leader actually reduces the base effectiveness of this incredible army of Super Duper Skrulls, by all means, make that case. But I've already made that invitation quite clearly and you quite clearly aren't going that far.
As have I with Super Skrull managing 1000 Hulks who are also Sorcerer Supremes with the speed of Surfer.None.
What you fail to see here in your attempts to turn this argument around on me is that nobody (and I mean absolutely nobody) was ever arguing that Super Skull as commander is the key to victory here in the first place.
Unlike you and all your attempts to make Madame Xanadu as being somehow especially relevant to DC Earth's chances here when she hasn't been relevant in anything. So, no, actually, you've unwittingly displayed exactly why your name-dropping of Madame Xanadu was pointless.
Chew on that for a while.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Super Skrull isn't dealing with Hulks. He's just letting them loose on DC Earth as they're fighting for him. Again, if you're backhandedly suggesting that Super Skrull is actually going to sabotage this hypothetical Skrull Invasion's chances, make that argument with proof from comics.
Incidentally, your earlier point is very relevant. Just because you canl lead a brigade or unit or however many Skrulls, does not equip you for dealing with Hulks. Otherwise, General Ross would have no issues whatsoever.
Which would be a change of pace. Because clearly, you haven't made any sort of argument for Madame Xanadu's relevance using comics.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85You're ignoring, either consciously or unconsciously, one huge difference. I don't think you're a troll, so I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. An army like this has never been assembled outside of this forum, therefore there are no examples of Super Skrulls of leading this type of army. That is why we need to cite examples like Annihilation and Annihilation Conquest. On the other hand there is ample evidence, cited in this thread, of Madam Xanadu being unable to precog universally relevant events.
As have I with Super Skrull managing 1000 Hulks who are also Sorcerer Supremes with the speed of Surfer.None.
Incidentally, your earlier point is very relevant. Just because you canl lead a brigade or unit or however many Skrulls, does not equip you for dealing with Hulks. Otherwise, General Ross would have no issues whatsoever.
Originally posted by ODG
^ The question is why should she be of consequence? Granted, I already asked for proof of any feats of Madame Xanadu thwarting alien invasions, or all-out war, or... y'know... anything that even comes close to the nature and/or scale of this hypothetical.Based on the complete nothing I've received in responses, I assumed there was no proof.
This line of thinking is entirely fallacious. If you want to argue that she does not have the ability to foresee every event then that's valid. If not and you think it makes no such impact that's laughable and you know it.
She had to be kidnapped in order for her precog to not be a factor. How is that her fault?
Originally posted by BasedShe had to be kidnapped in her one good precog feat that she was kind of short on details in the first place. But the funny thing is, she couldn't stop her kidnapping.
This line of thinking is entirely fallacious. If you want to argue that she does not have the ability to foresee every event then that's valid. If not and you think it makes no such impact that's laughable and you know it.She had to be kidnapped in order for her precog to not be a factor. How is that her fault?
Originally posted by Golgo13That's a big if. In Trinity War, she explained her life approach was to help out those who seek her. In Justice League Dark, she's revealed to be an habitual narcotics abuser who uses drugs to deal with the stress of her powers/visions. And some of her more explicit visions are triggered by touch. Like when Plastique and Outsider touched her.
If she has her deck in front of her, she can see an invasion coming. She then calls Constantine and Constantine summons whoever he needs to get the job done.
While she's arguably been more proactive with the JLD -- she doesn't exactly sit around in her parlor all day, flipping around cards non-stop for any new crisis that might arise. And the Super Duper Skrulls probably aren't going to send someone to her parlor to conveniently touch her and trigger her more explicit precog.