Dooku gets raped here, why is this even being discussed?.
Your putting a legendary sith/jedi like Revan who was WORSHIPPED AND HAD NUMEROUS CULTS AFTER HIS DEATH VS DOOKU WHO GOT HIS ASS TRIPLE ****ED BY ANAKIN!.
Revan would destroy Dookus master, Dooku has no chance of victory and would die in 1second in a saber duel.
Now Darth Thanton Vs Dooku THAT WOULD BE A FIGHT!. Thanton has way better lightning but Dooku is a better duelist.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Edit: lol @ Dooku not being dark councillor level. He's far above the average Jedi councillor level. Any proof that the average dark councillor is more powerful than the average Jedi councillor?
Ground realities of Jedi High Council:-
Jedi Council members are basically exemplary Jedi; they do no acquire positions in the Council on the basis of their power; they acquire such positions on the basis of:
The Jedi Order's governing body is its High Council: 12 renowned Masters recognized for their leadership, wisdom, bravery and self-sacrifice.
More;
Ascension to one of the Council's seats is often a natural progression determined primarily by necessity and a Jedi's innate qualifications. Master Jard, a founding member of the Jedi Order, summarized it best: "Every Master of the High Council arrives in their proper time and place, in accord with the will of the Force." Deliberations by the Council's members over promoting new Masters are typically brief, as the best choice is often clear to all well in advance of a vacant leadership seat.
While powerful Jedi can make it to the Jedi High Council; these council members are not necessarily the strongest members of the Order. Power and skill is not a fundamental requirement for acquiring position in the Jedi High Council and Jedi do not compete against each other to acquire position in the Jedi High Council.
Ground realities of Sith Dark Council:-
It is very difficult to become a Sith Lord in the first place:
Sith embody passion, strength, and power. Many pursue these ideals, but few are up to the challenge. Every Force-sensitive being in the Empire must endure the harsh, unrelenting trials that have shaped the Sith for millennia. Some are groomed for the privilege from the moment they display Force-sensitivity. Others fear the trials and hide their talent, only to be forced to face the tests. But regardless of their background, most acolytes die utter failures, their weaknesses exposed by the crushing demands of the Sith Academy on Korriban.
Whether broken by their overseer's instruction, struck down by their fellow acolytes, or devoured by the beasts of Korriban, many acolytes perish during their training. Others use the trails to hone their strength and deepen their understanding of the dark side. But ultimately, only the most fearsome, mighty and cunning acolytes rise to prove their worth and become Sith.
To become a Dark Council member is a mammoth task by all accounts:
To serve on the Dark Council is to achieve the greatest position of honor, power, and influence in the Empire. Many Sith spend their lives plotting their ascension to the council, but with millions vying for only 12 seats, the competition is cutthroat. The powerful few who join the council often serve for only a few months, their lives cut short by internal power struggles or external enemies who target them for assassination.
Dark Council members are the most powerful Sith in the Empire of galaxy:-
While the undying Emperor serves as the unquestioned leader of the Empire, the twelve members of the Dark Council oversee the daily workings of their vast civilization and speak in the Emperor’s name. Each is among the most powerful Sith in the galaxy; to hold a seat on the council is the highest honor and the greatest position of influence a Sith can attain. The individual members of the Dark Council control their own spheres of influence and pyramids of subordinate Sith–overall Imperial military strategy falls in the hands of one Dark Council member, while study of ancient artifacts falls into the hands of another. These spheres occasionally overlap, leading to conflict. However, every Sith Lord and apprentice is ultimately answerable to the council member at the top of his or her pyramid. Similarly, non-Sith organizations are usually clearly answerable to one Dark Council member or another. Meetings of the Dark Council are normally held in the Citadel on Dromund Kaas or in the Sith Academy on Korriban. It’s rare for all members to gather at once–power plays among members are frequent, and several of the Dark Lords are virtual hermits. On the occasions when the Emperor summons them, however, all members of the Dark Council are expected to gather and obey.
Sources:-
- Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
- Star Wars: The Old Republic: Game Codex Records
---
Dooku never got tested on the scale as these Sith have been. Also, your point that Dooku managed to humiliate some Jedi High Council members is lame and useless in the light of ground realities of Sith Dark Council.
Dark Council members are typically dark side prodigies: they are incredibility competent in the use of the Force (Feats range from destroying buildings to even preventing disintegration of a large starship in the space); routed whole armies in combat situations; killed other (extremely) powerful opponents; demonstrated "not so commonly witnessed" Force abilities; and lot of shit...
Dooku seems like a commoner in comparison to some Dark Council members.
Dark Council members are typically dark side prodigies: they are incredibility competent in the use of the Force (Feats range from destroying buildings to even preventing disintegration of a large starship in the space); routed whole armies in combat situations; killed other (extremely) powerful opponents; demonstrated "not so commonly witnessed" Force abilities; and lot of shit...
Can you post there feats.
@Neph
Vitiate forged his Empire in to a society which would test Sith like no other in galactic history.
This practice began very early:-
For 20 years, the exiled Sith fleet drifted through deep space. The Sith healed their wounds and reflected on their defeat. Imperial battle strategies were dissected, internal Sith strife was identified as a key weakness, and the Republic's surprise and slow move to defend itself was seen as a vulnerability ripe for exploit.
Meanwhile, the Sith dedicated themselves to training. They delved deep into the dark side of the Force, mastered new powers, and honed their minds and bodies into efficient weapons. Then, after nearly two decades of planning and training, they discovered the world of Dromund Kaas.
Source: Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Sith serving Vitiate were typically stronger and more competent then the Sith of the ancient Empire uprooted during the Great Hyperspace War. In-fact, it can be argued that Sith serving Vitiate represented the most competent and strongest bunch (on the whole) in entirety of galactic history.
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Can you post there feats.
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Dark Council members Darth Victun and Darth Qalar once fought each other inside the first Citadel of Dromund Kaas and destroyed the entire building in the process.
NOTE: Another Citadel was constructed in Dromund Kaas after the destruction of the previous one. Revan witnessed this particular citadel.
---
Darth Marr ("Master of the Force" as per encyclopedic medium) is known to have routed whole armies of the Republic during combat situations. He lasted over 40 years in the Dark Council and became the de-facto leader of the Sith Empire in the absence of the Sith Emperor (such level of power and position was beyond the reach of even Malgus whom Sidious acknowledged as one of his strongest predecessors).
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Imperial intelligence acknowledged Darth Jadus as "second to Sith Emperor" in power; he could prevent his 600 m long flagship from disintegrating from lethal blasts with his power in the Force out in the space (If such an action is necessitated in his story arc). He could inflict fear and pain in his surroundings by his mere presence. Much of his powers are a mystery but he packed lot of talents and surprises.
---
Darth Baras stalemated Satele Shan (Jedi Master) in single combat, controlled a dark side entity and disciplined Darth Angral in a duel.
NOTE: Keep in mind that Darth Angral was among the most powerful Sith in the Empire and a major boss for HoT; easily defeated a Jedi Master of Dooku calibre.
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Their are more examples.
Well okay:
-Darth Zavakon has control over the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge, which contains all the knowledge on the Sith
-Darth Nyriss easily pwned the Jedi Exile and Scourge
-Darth Marr was said to defeat entire armies of the Republic on various war fronts, being "a remarkably powerful practitioner of the dark side"
-Darth Nox was a total boss, being hypotethically equal with the Hero of Tython. Learn more checkout here page: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Nox
-Darth Thanaton was quite the cookie himself. Check out his page for a complete rundown on power: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Thanaton
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100509201009/starwars/images/1/1d/TK1.jpg
-Darth Baras was able to defend himself for a period of time against Satele Shan herself...
http://i.imgur.com/BAU97hy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HNnqmlz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bUW3Yzo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BycM9eZ.jpg
Obi-Wan/Dooku appear to be moving at over tens of thousands of times the speed of sound.
In the upper right window, there's a droid tri-fighter (5.4meters length) moving approximately one tri-fighter of distance in each interval whenever Obi-Wan ( 1.82 meters tall ) moves his hand the length of his fist. Obi-Wan only moves a tiny portion of his body in each picture while droid moves ~5.4 meters.
Tri fighters are faster than the X-Wings that can fly at"near-relativistic" speeds.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here are some accounts:----
Dark Council members Darth Victun and Darth Qalar once fought each other inside the first Citadel of Dromund Kaas and destroyed the entire building in the process.
[B]NOTE:
Another Citadel was constructed in Dromund Kaas after the destruction of the previous one. Revan witnessed this particular citadel.---
Darth Marr ("Master of the Force" as per encyclopedic medium) is known to have routed whole armies of the Republic during combat situations. He lasted over 40 years in the Dark Council and became the de-facto leader of the Sith Empire in the absence of the Sith Emperor (such level of power and position was beyond the reach of even Malgus whom Sidious acknowledged as one of his strongest predecessors).
---
Imperial intelligence acknowledged Darth Jadus as "second to Sith Emperor" in power; he could prevent his 600 m long flagship from disintegrating from lethal blasts with his power in the Force out in the space (If such an action is necessitated in his story arc). He could inflict fear and pain in his surroundings by his mere presence. Much of his powers are a mystery but he packed lot of talents and surprises.
---
Darth Baras stalemated Satele Shan (Jedi Master) in single combat, controlled a dark side entity and disciplined Darth Angral in a duel.
NOTE: Keep in mind that Darth Angral was among the most powerful Sith in the Empire and a major boss for HoT; easily defeated a Jedi Master of Dooku calibre.
---
Their are more examples. [/B]
List the rest...maybe a few dark council members>Dooku like Marr, Wrath, Nox and like 2others but Dooku is defenitly above your average DKM.
Speed based arguments are lame and ambiguous. A well-trained Force-user can move and react very fast; considerably faster then normal humans can.
For example: Revan could react to any kind of speed situation; speed of blaster bolts; speed of space-crafts; actions requiring instantaneous responses and vice versa. On one occasion, Revan outmaneuvered the speed of a dueling weapon itself. At one point, Revan was described as lightning fast (over 200,000 mph) in the novel.
Scourge is also noted to move with supernatural and blinding speeds. On one occasion, Scourge outmaneuvered the speed of a lightsaber blow itself. In another situation, Scourge evaded automated firepower of a speeder which itself was in motion at that time.
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
List the rest...maybe a few dark council members>Dooku like Marr, Wrath, Nox and like 2others but Dooku is defenitly above your average DKM.
In-fact, genuinely powerful Sith Lords existed outside Sith Dark Council as well. Sith of Dooku's caliber were not an uncommon sight in the Sith Empire of Vitiate. Of-course, their numbers were much lower in comparison to BILLIONS of Imperial citizens at any time.
In-fact, powerful Sith Lords existed outside Sith Dark Council as well. Dooku like Sith were common in Sith Empire of Vitiate.
No.
For example: Revan could react to any kind of speed situation; speed of blaster bolts; speed of space-crafts; actions requiring instantaneous responses and vice versa. On one occasion, Revan outmaneuvered the speed of a dueling weapon itself. At one point, Revan was described as lightning fast (over 200,000 mph) in the novel.Scourge is also noted to move with supernatural and blinding speeds. On one occasion, Scourge outmaneuvered the speed of a lightsaber blow itself. In another situation, Scourge evaded automated firepower of a speeder which itself was in motion at that time.
Post the quotes of these.
It's demonstrated not all Dark Council Members were combat badasses, some admit to being there more for other skills. And a lot of the members were pretty temporary, able to take it but not hold it. Dooku was great at both combat and politics- he could get on the council, last there, and be well respected on it.
There's some Dooku-level Sith around then, on and off the council, but I wouldn't call them 'common'. He'd still be rather stand out in the era.
I found this on a site, and it's the mathematical analysis for Revan's asteroid TK feat. Dooku would never be capable of this. Enjoy!
I saw and counted about 22 different asteroid's being pulled down by his TK that ended up pulverized upon impact... could have been more, but I had the audio off and wasn't listening for impacts.
Sith = 88 pixels
Asteroid 1 Vertical Radius = 156 pixels
Asteroid 1 Horizontal Diameter = 388 pixels
Asteroid 2 Vertical Radius = 232 pixels
Asteroid 2 Horizontal Diameter = 334 pixels
Asteroid 1 Vertical Radius/Sith = 1.773
Asteroid 1 Horizontal Diameter/Sith = 4.409
Asteroid 2 Vertical Radius/Sith = 2.636
Asteroid 2 Horizontal Diameter/Sith = 3.795
Sith = 1.7 meters
Asteroid 1 Vertical Radius = 3.014 meters
Asteroid 1 Horizontal Diameter = 7.495 meters
Asteroid 1 Volume = 142.527 m^3
Asteroid Density = 2,700 kg/m^3
Asteroid 1 Mass = 384,822.9 kilograms
Asteroid 2 Vertical Radius (the light orange line, ignore the purple bit, that was an initial **** up) = 4.481 meters
Asteroid 2 Horizontal Diameter = 6.452 meters
Asteroid 2 Volume = 195.242 m^3
Asteroid 2 Mass = 527,153.4 kilograms
And...
Sith = 65 pixels
Asteroid 3 Diameter = 212 pixels
Asteroid 3 Height = 326 pixels
Asteroid 3 Diameter/Sith = 3.262
Asteroid 3 Heigth/Sith = 5.015
Sith = 1.7 meters
Asteroid 3 Diameter = 5.545 meters
Asteroid 3 Height = 8.526 meters (also the distance it traveled in 1 frame)
Asteroid 3 Volume = 137.191 m^3
Asteroid 3 Mass = 370,415.7 kilograms
Ok, now to find the speed, which I need a time frame for.
Nice to know I can scale from the blaster fire then.
From what I've gleaned, blaster fire seems to generally be considered around mach 3-5, not to mention something about them having supplanted something called slug throwers, which themselves fire at hypersonic speeds.
I figure using mach 3 here as a low end doesn't hurt given that.
Blaster Travel = 220 pixels
Sith = 169 pixels
Blaster Travel/Sith = 1.302
Blaster Travel = 2.213 meters
Blaster Speed = 1,020.87 m/s
Time Frame = 0.002 seconds
Which means the asteroid's travel at...
Asteroid Speed = 4,263 m/s
Note? Both the asteroid and blaster bolt move there respective distances in the same number of frames, namely 1.
Anyway...
This gives us...
Asteroid 1 Kinetic Energy = 3,496,725,798,000 joules or 835.738 tons
Asteroid 2 Kinetic Energy = 4,790,023,914,000 joules or 1.145 kilotons
Asteroid 3 Kinetic Energy = 3,365,813,558,000 joules or 805.026 tons
Ok, that's the individual asteroids and gives an idea of how powerful his TK is when its focus is split upon different objects.
For the full power of his TK, just multiply the average of the 3 yields gotten here by 22 (I say average, given they all appear to be similar in size in the video with some variation, and taking the average between the 3 seems fair enough here)
I COULD scale all the other 19 odd asteroids, but lazy and shit, and the result won't change much regardless.
Number of Asteroid's = 22
Average Energy Between Asteroids 1-3= 928.588 tons
Energy Exerted By Revan's TK = 20.429 kilotons
So, Revan's sporting town level TK at a minimum.
Not sure how this powerscales to other force powers, given I know jack all about how the force works, but here you go anyway.
Final Tally
Energy Exerted By Revan's TK = 20.429 kilotons
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
No.
For example:
Sith Lord Praven (trained by Darth Angral) was very powerful in the Force and exceptionally skilled in lightsaber combat as well. He was more then a match for many Jedi Masters and killed one of the finest combatants of Jedi Order (in its history) during Sacking of Coruscant. Regardless of such capabilities, Praven was not a member of the Dark Council.
DKM were typically among the best of the best in galactic history.
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Post the quotes of these.
Sith Lords, on average, were genuinely powerful in the Empire of Vitiate. His Empire was conditioned to root out weaklings within it. Just because you do not want to believe this, doesn't overwrites canon revelations.For example:
Sith Lord Praven (trained by Darth Angral) was very powerful in the Force and exceptionally skilled in lightsaber combat as well. He was more then a match for many Jedi Masters and killed one of the finest combatants of Jedi Order (in its history) during Sacking of Coruscant. Regardless of such capabilities, Praven was not a member of the Dark Council.
Dooku was one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of his time. Powerful enough to lift a giant metal bridge with ease, stalemate with (and defeat) Mace Windu, do very well Vs Yoda (unless you think your average Vitiate Sith can do that well Vs Yoda/Windu...then yeah). Pimpsmacked Sora Bulq and Tholme, beat GG who can throw out 20strikes a second.
Haven't you read Revan's novel
Not in a while, I don't remember the quote on Scourage you mentoined.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@NephVitiate forged his Empire in to a society which would test Sith like no other in galactic history.
This practice began very early:-
For 20 years, the exiled Sith fleet drifted through deep space. The Sith healed their wounds and reflected on their defeat. Imperial battle strategies were dissected, internal Sith strife was identified as a key weakness, and the Republic's surprise and slow move to defend itself was seen as a vulnerability ripe for exploit.
Meanwhile, the Sith dedicated themselves to training. They delved deep into the dark side of the Force, mastered new powers, and honed their minds and bodies into efficient weapons. Then, after nearly two decades of planning and training, they discovered the world of Dromund Kaas.
[B]Source:
Star Wars: The Old Republic: EncyclopediaSith serving Vitiate were typically stronger and more competent then the Sith of the ancient Empire uprooted during the Great Hyperspace War. In-fact, it can be argued that Sith serving Vitiate represented the most competent and strongest bunch (on the whole) in entirety of galactic history. [/B]
Saying Dooku is like a commoner compared to the Dark Council is one of the most ridiculous things you've ever said.
