Originally posted by TrevorPhillips
If that's the best Ryu's got then he's going to die in a few seconds
That's actually an early minuscule feat compared to what he does later in most SF cartoons.
The feats Ryu performs at the end of some movies including ALPHA are insane.
Combining his anime feats and manga feats make him much more than his game counterpart.
Originally posted by the ninjakThen show it, surely if you had better feats to show then you wouldn't have shown such a mediocre feat.
That's actually an early minuscule feat compared to what he does later in most SF cartoons.The feats Ryu performs at the end of some movies including ALPHA are insane.
Combining his anime feats and manga feats make him much more than his game counterpart.
@Q99
And when fighting Regus he had no reason to toy around and was still getting hit. People who he has no reason to let hit him score blows on occasion.
The thing about a lot of speedsters is, if you can predict them, they're often pretty easy, their own momentum means they go down fast. It's not the same as mixing it up in HtH with a skilled foe who'll adjust to the attacks against them in response.
As I already stated, it isn't impossible to hit Midnighter, just difficult with his speed and and pre cognition, and even if Ryu could hit Midnighter you haven't shown feats to suggest he could damage him to override his healing factor
Even if you could predict a speedster you would still need a degree of speed and reaction to actually hit the speedster. They didn't mix it up in H2H because Midnighter took Impetus down with one move, before Impetus could land his own attack. Midnighter didn't just react to a speedster, he beat him to the punch
What? Jack is not all that physically strong. Multi-ton class, sure, but he's not as strong as, say, Spider-man, physically speaking.
Charlie's dealt more to him... and come to think of it, I mentioned Rose dishing and Bison shrugging more damage than Jack could do physically, with the 'hitting so hard into a large building it collapses' thing. Jack has never done anything like that.
Jack in his weaker form shrugged off a shotgun blast to the chest and pick up and chucked a semi, neither of which Spiderman is capable of doing. Hawksmoore was able to tear through a tank before Midnighter brutalized him.
Ignoring the fact that Rose and Bison aren't in this fight and therefore doesn't apply to Ryu, that building collapsing on Bison had little to do with the power of Roses attack and more likely the fact that Bison damaged some support beams which caused it to collapse.
This completely pales in comparison to what a weaker Jack is capable of let alone a stronger version who Midnighter fought.
Indeed, Ryu's is better. You see, when you're thrown a far distance, and go through a couple weak barriers in the way, the impact is spread out. A solid sudden stop has all the energy hitting at once.
And hey, remember the example I gave of a drained Ryu getting into a fight with another fighting and destroying some buildings? He was both knocked through, and knocked his foe through, several buildings.
It's a completely average, low-level feat here. If Midnighter *couldn't* do that, then it wouldn't even be a fight.
Ah..no...that would depend on the material that the character is being slammed into. You stated Ryu was slammed into solid rock that cracked..in Midnighters case his opponent hit him hard enough to send him through several buildings across a land scape. That means he was hit so hard that he didn't lose any momentum until there were no more buildings to crash into. You're also only taking the impact into consideration and not the attack itself. Midnighters feats are objectively better
I think you're just underrating (or heck, flat-out brushing off) the SF feats being present to you. The durability and striking power pretty easily go to SF.
If I am it's probably because none of the feats presented for Ryu have been very impressive. Ryu's durability feat of getting knocked into solid rock pales in comparison to Midnighter getting hit so hard that he doesn't lose any momentum even after going through several buildings. And there isn't a single striking feat listed that comes close to hurting someone like Apollo or Jack Hawksmoore who can shred a tank.
Or rather, a 'clear advantage for Ryu'. And do remember Ryu can put his energy *inside* his fits for the shoryuken.
Like, you know Sagat? Ryu's rival? He's taken an AK-47 burst to the chest and just flexed his muscles to make the bullets pop out, they might as well have been BBs. Sagat has a giant scar that hospitalized him from when Ryu unleashed a full-power shoryuken. Cool so Ryu has to put his energy in his fist to hurt someone who can shrug off bullets. Going by this Midnighters standard attacks are more devastating than Ryu's ampled attacks. Thanks for that
I'm pretty sure Zealot fought him on even terms once, battle computer and all. The battle computer is far from an instant win against a highly skilled superhuman foe.
As stated before Midnighter enjoys fighting. When he fought Assassin 8 he even mentioned that he was having fun fighting him and from a physical and skill based standpoint he's similar to Zealot.
And really. What speed feats have been shown for Ryu? The only thing shown so far is that Ryu can dodge bullets. Congratulations this would put in the peak human range of speed. If you have other speed related feats then by all means..
Also what skill based feats have you shown? Because so far everything stated in defense of Ryu have been strength and durability feats, nothing for his speed or skill..
And really if carrying a boulder is Ryu's best strength feat then Midnighter might be stronger as well. He was able to hold the jaws of a giant 200 foot monster open. Considering that a smaller Trex can toss several tons around it's probably a better feat than Ryu carrying a boulder, unless it was a BIG boulder.
Hawksmoore with his powers was also able to survive a nuclear explosion and this is the very that Midnighter beat the crap out of.
As I already stated, it isn't impossible to hit Midnighter, just difficult with his speed and and pre cognition, and even if Ryu could hit Midnighter you haven't shown feats to suggest he could damage him to override his healing factor
Except, hey, I have, the greater damage-dishing ability repeatedly mentioned that works against the foes with greater toughness.
You can't just say your side is tougher when the feats don't back it up.
Even if you could predict a speedster you would still need a degree of speed and reaction to actually hit the speedster.
Depends on the type of speed, just sticking something in the way works very often even against high-end speedsters.
The feat you named is no different than what Deathstroke's done to Kid Flash many times.
Ah..no...that would depend on the material that the character is being slammed into. You stated Ryu was slammed into solid rock that cracked..in Midnighters case his opponent hit him hard enough to send him through several buildings across a land scape. That means he was hit so hard that he didn't lose any momentum until there were no more buildings to crash into. You're also only taking the impact into consideration and not the attack itself.
Yea, buildings are made of wood, often drywall, being knocked through them is not actually that impressive, and I've already also given a feat of Ryu and a foe doing the same thing. In the stone case, Ryu was hit into one of those 'carved from a giant stone' temples.
And the impact deals much of the damage, and you're overlooking the initial attack there.
And Ryu's hurt and been hit by Bison, who finds being hit into an office building hard enough to collapse it on him a shrug-worthy event.
Midnighters feats are objectively better
Less destruction equals better? You've seen the videos, the giant craters and all that. Stop just ignoring the SF chars feats.
Seriously, why do you think ignoring the oft-mentioned SF feats is an argument? Stop just ignoring the SF side.
As stated before Midnighter enjoys fighting.
Oh, so your argument is to just dismiss every time he's hit at doing it on purpose, even when it's done by real villains who he has no reason to take shots from and it consistently happens against skilled foes? Gotcha.
He has a healing factor for a reason, namely he can't dodge everything.
And really. What speed feats have been shown for Ryu? The only thing shown so far is that Ryu can dodge bullets. Congratulations this would put in the peak human range of speed. If you have other speed related feats then by all means..
SF characters show high superspeed, hundreds of attacks in a few seconds (Honda, Chun Li), bouncing back and forth across 20m gap 5 times in 3 seconds, and moving too fast to be seen when attacking (Gen, Akuma). Notably Ryu is able to fight on a level with these foes.
Heck, there's a manga where Vega attacks a spec ops team and Cammy is literally the only one present who can even *see* him.
Or, long story short: Speed edge, Ryu/SF chars. Damage output edge: *Easily* Ryu, as has been shown. Toughness: Similarly Ryu.
Hawksmoore with his powers was also able to survive a nuclear explosion and this is the very that Midnighter beat the crap out of.
Hawksmoore has powers specifically dependent on where he is and is quite capable of being beaten up by far less, as he has been. And of course, where someone is in proximity to a nuke matters a *lot*.
Don't try and pass stuff by me as if I was unfamiliar with the comics, I've read the original Stormwatch, the Authority, and a good deal of other Wildstorm comics. If you have too, then you'd know their normal levels.
@Q99
Except, hey, I have, the greater damage-dishing ability repeatedly mentioned that works against the foes with greater toughness.
You can't just say your side is tougher when the feats don't back it up.
Good thing the feats presented for Midnighter have more than backed it up, where as the mediocrity you've shown for Ryu show nothing more than how fast he's going to get skull punted
Depends on the type of speed, just sticking something in the way works very often even against high-end speedsters.
The feat you named is no different than what Deathstroke's done to Kid Flash many times. You may want to reread some of those comics. The two notable times that Deathstroke hit Kid Flash were in the 80's when Wally wasn't that fast. With Bart he just dawned the mantle of Kid Flash and healed from getting his knee capped blown off earlier. There was a time in Identity Crisis when DS prepped.
The big difference is that Deathstroke tags these Flashes when they are unprepared and moving at cruising speeds, with Impetus he was beating down Midnighters entire team, charged at Midnighter, dodged his shurikens and then got put down.
Yea, buildings are made of wood, often drywall, being knocked through them is not actually that impressive, and I've already also given a feat of Ryu and a foe doing the same thing. In the stone case, Ryu was hit into one of those 'carved from a giant stone' temples.
And the impact deals much of the damage, and you're overlooking the initial attack there.
And Ryu's hurt and been hit by Bison, who finds being hit into an office building hard enough to collapse it on him a shrug-worthy event. Buildings are made out of wood, concrete, marble, brick, steel and other materials. It's impossible to tell what's more durable but the fact is that Midnighter was hit hard enough that crashing through buildings didn't halt his momentum.
If Superman hits Batman, Batman is going to die from the punch and not from crashing into a brick wall behind him. The punch itself>>The impact.
Less destruction equals better? You've seen the videos, the giant craters and all that. Stop just ignoring the SF chars feats.
Seriously, why do you think ignoring the oft-mentioned SF feats is an argument? Stop just ignoring the SF side.
More momentum = Greater Hit = Greater damage. Let someone punch you in the face and see what hurts more, the punch itself or getting knocked on your @$$.
I haven't ignored anything, the simple fact is the slew of mediocrity you've provided isn't going to save Ryu from getting skull punted. Sorry
Oh, so your argument is to just dismiss every time he's hit at doing it on purpose, even when it's done by real villains who he has no reason to take shots from and it consistently happens against skilled foes? Gotcha.
He has a healing factor for a reason, namely he can't dodge everything.
Judging by the speed feats you've listed almost all of these characters including Zealot and Assassin 8 have better speed and reaction feats than Ryu does. So it's a moot point, and even if Ryu could hit Midnighter you've yet to show Ryu hitting hard enough to cause him any inconvenience
SF characters show high superspeed, hundreds of attacks in a few seconds (Honda, Chun Li), bouncing back and forth across 20m gap 5 times in 3 seconds, and moving too fast to be seen when attacking (Gen, Akuma). Notably Ryu is able to fight on a level with these foes.
Heck, there's a manga where Vega attacks a spec ops team and Cammy is literally the only one present who can even *see* him.
😆 😆
Remind me again, which one of these feats compares to owning a speedster or casually kicking a tank shell back? Actually that tank shell counts double as a striking feat since Midnighter would have to stop the shell and hit it hard enough to fly back to the tank.
So which one of thse feats compare? Oh yeah, none of them do.
Attacking faster than can be seen? Vega blitzing a spec ops team? Which one of these feats are something that a peak human couldn't easily replicate?
Honda and Chun Li have never thrown hundreds of punches or kicks in seconds. I'm well of their signature moves but saying they throw hundreds of attacks in seconds is an arbitrary number.
Right now when I read that I watched the fight between Vega and Chun Li from the SF2 Movie, in the span of 5 seconds she didn't throw anymore than 50 kicks. Probably even less than that.
The only feat you listed that may be impressive is jumping 20 meters or 60 feet back and forward five times in 3 seconds. I've never heard of this feat so you'll have to show a video or a scan or something so I can see the context for myself.
Most importantly though is that you're using the entire SF rosters feats for Ryu. Sorry but if you want to show how fast Ryu is then use RYU's feats and not other characters. So far based off of the feats shown Ryu isn't above peak human in the speed range.
Hawksmoore has powers specifically dependent on where he is and is quite capable of being beaten up by far less, as he has been. And of course, where someone is in proximity to a nuke matters a *lot*.
Don't try and pass stuff by me as if I was unfamiliar with the comics, I've read the original Stormwatch, the Authority, and a good deal of other Wildstorm comics. If you have too, then you'd know their normal levels.
Hawksmoore comes in two flavors, he either has his powers or he doesn't. Without his powers he shrugged off a shot gun blast point blank and tossed a semi, with his powers he can rip through tanks and survive nuclear explosions
For someone who claims to have read alot of the material it was pretty silly for you to claim he's weaker than Spiderman is.
Long story short
Strength/Striking power = Midnighter, hurts characters like Hawksmoore, Apollo and Hellstrike who are more durable than anyone in SF. Midnighter was also able to hold open the jaws of a giant 200ft Godzilla esque monster.
Speed = Midnighter by far, counter blitzes Impetus, kicks back a tank shell and can spit his teeth with the force of a high caliber bullet. Ryu's best feat puts him in the peak human range.
Durability = Midnighter. Even if we don't agree on which of their durability feats is more impressive, Midnighter has a regeneration factor, Ryu doesn't
Good thing the feats presented for Midnighter have more than backed it up, where as the mediocrity you've shown for Ryu show nothing more than how fast he's going to get skull punted
So you see less-powerful SF characters make gigantic craters, and ignore it?
Yea, we're pretty much done here. General tip, if you want to be taken seriously, you can't just ignore the other side and say your fav wins regardless.
Originally posted by Q99Concession accepted, general tip, if you want to be taken seriously you can't take feats from 10 characters and try to apply them to one.
So you see less-powerful SF characters make gigantic craters, and ignore it?Yea, we're pretty much done here. General tip, if you want to be taken seriously, you can't just ignore the other side and say your fav wins regardless.
You're pretty much implying that Ryu gets mutilated since you're using feats from half the SF roster. Saddest argument I've seen in a while, thanks for that
Originally posted by TrevorPhillipss
Concession accepted, general tip, if you want to be taken seriously you can't take feats from 10 characters and try to apply them to one.You're pretty much implying that Ryu gets mutilated since you're using feats from half the SF roster. Saddest argument I've seen in a while, thanks for that
*Shakes head*
You missed the point, didn't you?
I showed you feats from 10 different characters who Ryu regularly fights (and is stronger than many of), demonstrating the level of the characters.
"Oh, just because the 10 characters he fights have feats way above Midnighter, doesn't mean Ryu does," is not a compelling argument.
Originally posted by Q99It doesn't matter, Midnighter regularly fights class 100 bricks, speedsters and characters that can withstand nuclear explosions, does this mean Midnighter is a class 100 brick speedster who can withstand nuclear explosions? No. Is Midnighter as strong and fast as Winter because he beat him? No, can Midnighter rip through a tank because he decimated Hawksmoore? No
*Shakes head*You missed the point, didn't you?
I showed you feats from 10 different characters who Ryu regularly fights (and is stronger than many of), demonstrating the level of the characters.
"Oh, just because the 10 characters he fights have feats way above Midnighter, doesn't mean Ryu does," is not a compelling argument.
You want to debate for Ryu, show Ryu's feats, not ABC logic.
Remind me again, which one of those speed feats compares to Midnighter swatting a tank shell back, owning Impetus or spitting his teeth like they were high caliber bullets? Certainly not that pile of crap you presented. The only saving grace you may have had was that 20m 5x in 3 seconds feat but I've asked you to show it so I can see the context, instead you decided to cop out, and with your weak argument I can't really blame you.