Sora Bulq Vs ROTS Obi Wan Kenobi

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He stalemated Skywalker in a force push. Dooku owned Kenobi with the Force so hard it was ridiculous. So clearly the Anakin who stalemated Kenobi in the Force was not operating on the same level as when he made Dooku's force powers "useless."

Or, alternatively, he caught Kenobi off guard/Kenobi was more focused and serious against Anakin.

Skywalker solidly beating Dooku really puts him leagues above Kenobi.

The same Skywalker who was so solidly beaten by Kenobi he lost a whole bunch of limbs?

I don't think that's what 'leagues' means.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Can you mention quotes?

I don't have the quote so hopefully someone else can provide it. Not sure if it's Rise of Darth Vader or the Death Star series. But Palpatine tells Vader he was between worlds at that time, which he clearly was.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vader may have been conflicted for a while after betraying the Jedi but his reaction to Obi-Wan and Padme suggests that he had finally come to terms with his dark side alignment.

That was right after he was crying. It would be silly to think he suddenly completely accepted the Dark Side with the right mind set after choking his wife, then ranting on to Kenobi about it being his fault.

No his whole turn was to save Padme. He only fully embraced the Dark Side with all it's fury and without a concious after Padme died.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
SWTUVG affirms that Vader was hell-bent on attempting to kill Obi-Wan. The latter won after emotionally detaching from the former.

But it doesn't confirm Vader was in the right mind set to defeat Kenobi.

Fact is Skywalker wasn't operating on the same level where he could make Dooku's knowledge of the Force "Useless."

Kenobi is not above Dooku in any way. If Dooku couldn't handle Skywalker, then there's no way Kenobi could have handled him at that stage.

Originally posted by Q99
Or, alternatively, he caught Kenobi off guard/Kenobi was more focused and serious against Anakin.

If Kenobi's caught "off-guard" by Dooku when Dooku is the one whose outnumbered, then clearly it was because Dooku was simply outfighting him. Which The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader confirms.

Where do you get that Kenobi wasn't serious or focused against Dooku. The dialogue leading up to the fight suggest the exact opposite.

Originally posted by Q99
The same Skywalker who was so solidly beaten by Kenobi he lost a whole bunch of limbs?

I don't think that's what 'leagues' means.

So clearly the only explanation is that Skywalker who wasn't properly focused, and not in the right mind set against Kenobi.

The fact that he could only stalemate Kenobi in a Force Push outright Proves he would not have made Dooku's Knowledge of the Force "Useless" at that point in time.

Well, both Kenobi and Bulq are equal with a force. They both have quite strong force push (Kenobi showed it egainst Anakin, and Bulq against Windu), and terrible force's guard (Dooku defeated them both quite easily with the force, and Windu took advantage over Sora becasue of that).
As a swordmasters, they both can fight equally with enemies stronger then themselves (Kenobi vs Anakin, and Bulq vs Windu).
After all I bet Kenobi as a winner. I believe that his Soresu might be a nice counter against Bulq's Vaapad.

In regards to Kenobi vs. Anakin...

It's pretty clear Anakin was not in any way fighting to his full potential. Darth Power has provided enough evidence to accept this as fact, and we can also logically assume this is the case mainly because Anakin by that time was well above Dooku [overall], who in turn was Kenobi's clear superior.

Of course, we can't always use A>B>C logic in the SW universe, but Dooku defeats Kenobi handily each and every time they fight. It's obvious that Kenobi is not nearly on the Count's level, which means Anakin simply wasn't focused and had too much going on in his mind at the time of their fight. A crystal-clear minded Anakin would've defeated his former mentor.

EDIT - Also, the fact that Anakin had previously defeated a good amount of Jedi [including Cin Drallig, the battlemaster], doesn't necessarily indicate he was in the same state of mind as he was in his fight against Kenobi. After all, he was crying because he had murdered the Separatists [and likely because of everything else he had done] and fought Kenobi after thinking his wife betrayed him, choked her and saw him [whom he had considered his brother] take shots at him. Really, if anything, he was even more confused and unstable than he was when he attacked the Jedi Temple.

^
Was it addresed to me? If it was, then I have to assure you, that my opinion about Anakin's state of mind during duel with Kenobi is the same as Darth Power's.

But despite his mind state, he was still superior to Kenobi in raw power in the force, so Kenobi had TIE with much stronger enemy. But yeah, against Anakin with clear mind, he would have not any chances in a force fight.

Kenobi will defeat Bulq in a hard battle imo. Now Bulq vs. Maul would be very very very interesting.

^ Don't really see how Maul's any less lethal than Kenobi in an all out tbh. Kenobi may have the edge in fencing skill, but Maul seems to have the power advantage for sure.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ Don't really see how Maul's any less lethal than Kenobi in an all out tbh. Kenobi may have the edge in fencing skill, but Maul seems to have the power advantage for sure.

Power advantage is pretty meaningless when Kenobi defeated perhaps the most acclaimed master of Djem So in history. It was circumstantial, but even mind ****ed I doubt Anakin's blows were that much less strong. Also Bulq's Vaapad would let him fare much better against Maul who's rage will prove to his advantage.

Maul vs Bulq?
Well, if Maul's TK is comperable or above Mace's TK, then Maul wins all-out and force.
I'm not sure about sabers. Bulq is a Vaapad master (mentally, Vaapad mastered Bulq, but technicaly I'm pretty sure, that Bulq mastered Vaapad). Maul - as I remeber - is a master of Juyo and Teräs Käsi. I consider him as a bit more skilled then Bulq, but Vaapad may compensate that. Also, Bulq has the advantage in weapons in my opinion. I have no idea who would win in a pure lighstaber battle.

Originally posted by Zett
Maul vs Bulq?
Well, if Maul's TK is comperable or above Mace's TK, then Maul wins all-out and force.
I'm not sure about sabers. Bulq is a Vaapad master (mentally, Vaapad mastered Bulq, but technicaly I'm pretty sure, that Bulq mastered Vaapad). Maul - as I remeber - is a master of Juyo and Teräs Käsi. I consider him as a bit more skilled then Bulq, but Vaapad may compensate that. Also, Bulq has the advantage in weapons in my opinion. I have no idea who would win in a pure lighstaber battle.

I highly doubt Maul can casually off Bulq with the force honestly.

^
Well, hard to tell. When Maul fought Kenobi along with Savage, he was able to TK and push Kenobi onto wall (quite similar to Windu's push against Bulq).
In Sith Hunters Maul was able to defeat Kenobi by TK attack.
And in my opinion, Kenobi and Bulq have similar force powers (during battle ofc).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If Kenobi's caught "off-guard" by Dooku when Dooku is the one whose outnumbered, then clearly it was because Dooku was simply outfighting him. Which The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader confirms.

Where do you get that Kenobi wasn't serious or focused against Dooku. The dialogue leading up to the fight suggest the exact opposite.

But Anakin was far more personal and he showed far more emotions. And we've seen other occasions where Kenobi + Anakin actually don't perform as well as each separately, instead each being fairly cautious (like the early Opress fight).

In terms of results, we've got a rock-paper-scissors thing going on. If you've got RPS, that simply doesn't translate into 'leagues better.' More like, Dooku's style matches up well against Kenobi's in addition to a small overall advantage. While Kenobi's matches up well against Anakin's or Maul's.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also Bulq's Vaapad would let him fare much better against Maul who's rage will prove to his advantage.

Oh yeah, I didn't think about Vapaad vs Darksiders.

Originally posted by Zett
^

In Sith Hunters Maul was able to defeat Kenobi by TK attack.

He didn't just defeat him. He outright stomped him. But tbf they were in a place strong in the Dark Side.

I doubt Maul is Mace's equal in the Force, considering how easily Sidious tossed him around. Didn't seem like he could toss Mace around that easily.

Originally posted by Q99

In terms of results, we've got a rock-paper-scissors thing going on. If you've got RPS, that simply doesn't translate into 'leagues better.' More like, Dooku's style matches up well against Kenobi's in addition to a small overall advantage. While Kenobi's matches up well against Anakin's or Maul's.

If they were all good fights then it could have just been a rock/paper/scissors thing.

But Kenobi vs Dooku wasn't even close to being a good/close fight. Also Sith Anakin and Kenobi were so equal in Sabers as well as the Force, I just don't see why Dooku would have any more trouble against that Sith Anakin than he did against Kenobi.

^
Yeah, Mace is greater then Maul as a force user. It looks like he has much better guard in the force (some protects etc), he has shatterpoint. But in pure TK, I'm not so sure.
And Bulq doesn't impress me at this point. Like Kenobi, he's just a free frag for a strong force users. Mace did a nice force push against him (well, push is in fact a part of TK). His Vaapad didn't help him against Dooku's lightning (maybe it was some kind of combo TK+lightning like against Anakin in AOTC? I have no idea, but it might be some excuse for Bulq).

So, I believe that Maul would be able to catch Bulq off-guard with his TK and defeat him.