Exar Kun vs Darth Vader

Okay. This is my reasoning for Vader winning:

1. Vader's very underrated in terms of skill. He's fought evenly with ANH Obi-Wan, fought evenly with Starkiller, beaten Roan Shryne and beat multiple Jedi at the same time, all done in ANH/before ANH. Vader gets a massive skill upgrade in between ANH and ESB.

2. Vader's got a huge power advantage, in my opinion. He's collapsed cathedrals, thrown ships, crushed gigantic droids, pulled over huge trees etc, not to mention he's very adapt at using his powers during a fight (Luke, Maul, Starkiller, Shryne comes to mind). He also knows a variety of other powers such as Alter Environment etc.

3. Vader appears to be physically superior. He's crushed ''unbreakable debris'' by smashing it, has produced four afterimages out of his blade, has survived getting buildings crushed on him etc.

4. Judging by the above, Vader seems better by a good margin, in my opinion. He's got better skill feats, is more powerful, stronger and comparably fast.

Q99, it's already been established that Kun stomps because he's powerful.

1. Vader's very underrated in terms of skill. He's fought evenly with ANH Obi-Wan, fought evenly with Starkiller, beaten Roan Shryne and beat multiple Jedi at the same time, all done in ANH/before ANH. Vader gets a massive skill upgrade in between ANH and ESB.

And to elaborate on 'multiple Jedi,' there was an instance where he took on 5 when still fairly new in his armor, and not long after the Conclave at Kessel where he took on eight, including known masters Butler Swan and Tsui Choi, and five of 'em were dead before Clone reinforcements showed up.

I wouldn't say he got a skill upgrade between ANH and Empire- I'd say it's more he didn't have a reason to push himself hard in ANH.

It's confirmed that he grew massively between ANH and ESB in skill.

What confirmed it? What was the jump? I mean, his feats strike me as nigh-identical before and after.

What's that from?

if it's a pre-prequel trilogy release, I'm guessing it might've been written without a clear understanding of just how powerful they made him before that point.

Because seriously, if he's supposed to be way more powerful than he was back in the early days, that's Palps/Yoda level. Easy.

It's from Fightsaber in an Insider issue. Can't remember the number, sorry.

Nobody is questioning Vader's saber mastery. But Kun was the greatest saber duelist of his time, with a technique that is unknown to Vader. If we talk about strength, Kun raised that senator guy over his head with one hand. We have to include sith magic, which Vader is unfamiliar with. We have to include amulet blasts, which make holes in anything they hit. We have to believe that as fast as Vader is, he still has limited mobility because he's mostly a cyborg and the speed edge goes to Kun by default. TK may go to Vader but that's the only thing that does.

That Kun was the greatest of his time does not mean superiority to Vader as a duelist, especially when the latter has a wealth of greater feats.

I did not say that made him a superior duelist, I just added that as evidence of his skills. The latter does not have greater feats, he has more feats. But again, when you consider Kun is the greatest of his time, his saber skills are unknown to Vader, his strength is comparable, and his speed is comparable if not better, he seems the likely victor in saber duel.

I disagree. Taking on multiple Jedi and killing over half of them, stalemating ANH Obi-Wan, fighting Starkiller as an equal etc., far before his prime, is better than stalemating Uliq and beating Vodo, in my opinion.

Vader's style is made up of multiple forms, which would be unknown to Kun as well.

Maybe their strength is comparable, but as Vader primary is a Djem So practioner, strength would factor in more than it would for Kun.

Speed should be equal. Both have produced the same amount of afterimages.

ANH Obi-wan has been out of lightsaber practice for, 15+ years? And maybe that is your opinion.

As far as Vader's style, it's a strong style which I doubt would be as unknown to Kun as Kun's style is to Vader.

Speed could not be equal. As fast is Vader is as a cyborg, he doesn't appear to be as fast as Kun.

Yeah, he had. And if Vader was in his prime then it hadn't been a good feat, but Vader was far off his prime.

And I doubt that Kun would be having any noteworthy advantage.

Sure he does. They've got the exact same speed feats. Kun is more mobile and agile, but he's not faster.

If we agree that speed is inconclusive, the fact that he's more mobile and agile with a form unknown to Vader, should give him the necessary advantage in a saber duel.

Form advantage is neutral, bro. Vader's comparable and likely superior strength will help him more than Kun's strength will help him, and he can tolerate pain better.

And that's assuming they're equal in skill.

Why is Vader superior in strength?

Uh, because he's a ****ing beast?

Kun lifted a guy with one arm. Whoopdishit. Vader rips apart droids with his bare hands and almost overpowered Marek with his strength. Marek who tosses TIE fighters around.

Vader shatters unbreakable densecris:

The aluminized densecris shattered into a thousand pieces, struck by the dark side as if by a metal fist. Vader was aware of the "unbreakable" substance splintering and falling, tinkling onto the floor, myriad reflections sparkling in the light as they seemed to move in slow motion.

-Deathstar

Ripping off a steel door:

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Vader shatters unbreakable densecris:

The aluminized densecris shattered into a thousand pieces, struck by the dark side as if by a metal fist. Vader was aware of the "unbreakable" substance splintering and falling, tinkling onto the floor, myriad reflections sparkling in the light as they seemed to move in slow motion.

-Deathstar

Dude, he shattered that with the Force, not his actual fists.