Starbrand Vs Silver Surfer

Originally posted by zopzop
Thor and crew weren't going all out vs a kid that a) wasn't a villain and b) obviously confused as to what was going on. That's not even debatable.

And like I said, what did the Brand do that was so impressive? You think Surfer can't BFR Hulk, while causing Hyperion pain and singeing Thor's clothing? Because that's ALL Starbrand did.

Regarding the Starbrand's reaction to a Mjolnir strike, the Surfer took one from a pissed off Thor that thought he was attacking his homeland and Surfer was just fine (exactly like the Starbrand) :

And this was a Surfer that was trying to reason with Thor.

Regarding Thanos, I don't know if you've noticed but Hickman doesn't respect power levels or character history. Thanos is going to get jobbed out like a cheap whore (just like the LT was under Hickman's pen). And unless I'm mistaken, it's the Earth based heroes that are going to take him on, not Starbrand and crew. So there goes that.

Starbrand for the stomp

Originally posted by Stoic
It doesn't matter who writes it because we are going with characters as they are currently. i mean imagine if i went with the most powerful version of the Hulk? WB Hulk. He would tear the Surfers arms off, but that's not done because we go with what is currently happening in Marvel. If Hickman were doing such a bad job, why hasn't he been fired yet? Why would Marvel back him if he was getting it all wrong? Ok so LT had a poor showing. How many of those has the Spectre gotten? First of all we know one thing is certain, the Builders are greater than Heralds, or Norrin would have stopped those guys from destroying the Skrull kids planet. he was useless there. The only thing that he was able to save was his own hide, and the Skrulls. Currently speaking the Surfer has a lot of yardage to make up, because I am far more impressed by the Brand's performance so far in the story. Keep it current, or it really doesn't matter at this point. At least to a certain degree. And keep in mind that Norrin has been ass whipped by less than a power capable of defending an entire planet alone. Did you take into account just what type of forces it was meant to defend against? Galactus is a planets worst nightmare. So....

The Builders ran for their lives when the Avengers and crew turned their "World Busting" ships against them and their fleet. FAIL. The Starbrand then destroyed the few remaining stragglers that were damaged by the World Busters the Avengers hacked.

Again, the Starbrand has done nothing impressive so far.

Originally posted by Stoic
If Hickman were doing such a bad job, why hasn't he been fired yet? Why would Marvel back him if he was getting it all wrong?

Because he sells. I don't hate him, but I don't like him as much as other do either.

And Marvel would keep him even if he did everything wrong because it's Marvel. Bendis and Loeb can testify to that.

Originally posted by zopzop
Isn't Surfer "tethered" to Earth? The farther away he is the weaker he becomes. I'm willing to wager that the Skrull planet is LIGHTYEARS away from Earth, so he'd be pretty phucked engaging in a fight with anything there.

The Builders ran for their lives when the Avengers and crew turned their "World Busting" ships against them and their fleet. FAIL. The Starbrand then destroyed the few remaining stragglers that were damaged by the World Busters the Avengers hacked.

Again, the Starbrand has done nothing impressive so far.

He casually lifted his hand and caused that type of widespread destruction to the remaining fleet. i could see if he went all out and caused that much damage, but this was casual. He wasn't called into the main plan because he was in stasis along with the other universal avatars.

The Surfers condition has obviously changed, because being tethered to something literally means bound to it. Where did it state that just because he was bound to the Earth that he would be less than 100% if he went several light years away from it? I think that they made up that story because they were making it clear that Surfer may be once again counted as one of Earths main champions. I wouldn't give it much thought if I were you.

I am baffled how you can be less than impressed with the Brand while giving the Surfer such high praise, because if it were me, I'd be saying "shit, the Brand isn't all that, but gee, the Surfer's performance was several orders of magnitude crappier."

Originally posted by Stoic
He casually lifted his had and caused that type of widespread destruction to the remaining fleet. i could see if he went all out and cased that much damage, but this was casual. He wasn't called into the main plan because he was in stasis along with the other universal avatars.

The Surfers condition has obviously changed, because being tethered to something literally means bound to it. Where did it state that just because he was bound to the Earth that he would be less than 100% if he went several light years away from it? I think that they made up that story because they were making it clear that Surfer may be once again counted as one of Earths main champions. I wouldn't give it much thought if I were you.

I am baffled how you can be less than impressed with the Brand while giving the Surfer such high praise, because if it were me, I'd be saying "shit, the Brand isn't all that, but gee, the Surfer's performance was several orders of magnitude crappier."

Originally posted by zopzop

You mean the fleet that was already crippled by the AVENGERS hacked World Killers? Some feat. Check out Surfer vs the Annihilation Wave fleet for a comparison and you'll see why I'm not impressed with the Brand's performance.

Where was that stated on panel, that his condition changed? Because you can ask any forum member with the scan that Surfer IS tethered to Earth and the farther away he is the weaker he'll become.

The Starbrand had HELP from the Avengers hacked World Killers that did almost ALL the work for him. The Surfer is fighting by himself in a weakened condition. See the difference? [/B]

He casually lifted his hand, He wasn't trying to destroy the vessels, he casually destroyed them. Do you see the difference? The Surfer was going for broke in Annihilation.

Are you serious right now? Are you saying that the Surfer feels pain as soon as he is a block away from Earth? And yet he is now several light years away from it? If that were the case, he'd be as potent as a fart in the wind. it's obvious that they have disregarded his condition for this arc. Don't be surprised though, because you and I both know that this happens all of the time. Terrax ring a bell? He was land locked at one time by Galactus himself, and now suddenly without explanation he can once again travel throughout space. Tyrant ring a bell? The list of continuity glitches are light years long. Like I said, I wouldn't read too deeply into the Surfer's condition in this arc.

Again, he casually lifted his hand up. He didn't even try to destroy the crippled ships, he simply raised his hand and took them out. Imagine if he wasn't locked down and was able to get into the battle? The avengers wouldn't have needed to hack the ships. he would have likely been able to do most of the damage himself. i mean based on him just casually raising his hand, and causing that much damage without trying. I don't see the Surfer just casually lifting his hand, and seeing a fleet of war ships explode.

Crippled or otherwise.

Originally posted by Stoic
He casually lifted his hand, He wasn't trying to destroy the vessels, he casually destroyed them. Do you see the difference? The Surfer was going for broke in Annihilation.

Are you serious right now? Are you saying that the Surfer feels pain as soon as he is a block away from Earth? And yet he is now several light years away from it? If that were the case, he'd be as potent as a fart in the wind. it's obvious that they have disregarded his condition for this arc. Don't be surprised though, because you and I both know that this happens all of the time. Terrax ring a bell? He was land locked at one time by Galactus himself, and now suddenly without explanation he can once again travel throughout space. Tyrant ring a bell? The list of continuity glitches are light years long. Like I said, I wouldn't read too deeply into the Surfer's condition in this arc.

Terrax's problem was he was depowered by Doom and then they both wound up killing each other. Doom was raised by the Beyonder and a New Warriors villain rezzed Terrax. The reason why Terrax couldn't travel between worlds was because he was in a mortal host body when that villain rezzed him. And his condition was faithfully adhered to during the Herald Ordeal much later. So your example fails.

And what about Tyrant?

Again, he casually lifted his hand up. He didn't even try to destroy the crippled ships, he simply raised his hand and took them out. Imagine if he wasn't locked down and was able to get into the battle? The avengers wouldn't have needed to hack the ships. he would have likely been able to do most of the damage himself. i mean based on him just casually raising his hand, and causing that much damage without trying. I don't see the Surfer just casually lifting his hand, and seeing a fleet of war ships explode.

Crippled or otherwise.

Originally posted by zopzop

He "casually" destroyed a few crippled ships. The Avengers already did the heavy lifting by hacking the World Busters and using them to crush the Builders fleet. The Builders themselves ran for their lives. Starbrand did next to nothing, hence why it's a meaningless "feat".

[/b]
Unless it's stated otherwise on panel, the tethering is still in effect. It's not like this was some distant thing, it happened like a year or two ago. So your example fails.

Terrax's problem was he was depowered by Doom and then they both wound up killing each other. Doom was raised by the Beyonder and a New Warriors villain rezzed Terrax. The reason why Terrax couldn't travel between worlds was because he was in a mortal host body when that villain rezzed him. And his condition was faithfully adhered to during the Herald Ordeal much later. So your example fails.

And what about Tyrant?

Imagine, would have, could have, should have. This is basically just an opinion. I'm talking about concrete fights and/or feats. Surfer's SH|T all over Ellis/Hickman's Starbrand. You can keep avoiding this issue but it changes nothing. [/B]

Those crippled ships were not structurally damaged, and therefore he destroyed the ships while they were intact. I have never seen the Surfer just raise his hand and destroy a fleet that large. i have seen him fly around and take out one ship at a time though in the past.

There was no indication of the Surfer being weakened by his this crippling force that you are speaking of, so I will take it that it was not written into this arc. As in the writer forgot that the Surfer was weakened. Unless you can come up with some concrete proof that the Surfer is crippled during this arc, this is a non point. Moving on.

I'm talking about how none of those feats matter due to the nature of this discussion. For one the Brand has very few feats, and thus since the Surfer is operating at lower levels than the Brand we need to stick to current events. This arc has nothing to do with what the Surfer did in Annihilation, or any of his other adventures. As of this point the Surfer that was unable to save a world from doom, and was only able to save himself, and a Skrull teen was operating at far less than the brand, who would likely casually raise his hand, and destroy the guys that Norrin failed to. neither of us are going to win this discussion, because we still need to see more feats from the Starbrand. From this point in time the Surfer would obviously win a feat war, so if that's what you're aiming at fine. However he still has been far less impressive than the Starbrand in this arc. I'm sure that i am not the only person that sees this, just like I am sure that you will be proven wrong about just how powerful the Starbrand is.

Starbrand seens to be more powerfull.

But if we go be feats, with no pis, Surfer should win. But i think in some time Starbrand will win in feats too.

Based on feats/showings ... Silver Surfer ftw.

Starbrand wins.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Based on feats/showings ... Silver Surfer ftw.

Which showings?

FTL Speed, Time Travel, Planet + durability, Matter Manipulation, Planet level TP, energy absorption, attacking with Black Holes, Intangibility etc...

Off Topic: I agree that high heralds like Gladiator or Thor, should be able to do more damage to spacecrafts than "planet killers" ships... but against space armys the heralds always get weaker, i dont know how why... PIS Less, galactus heralds could destroy good part of annihilation wave, just spamming black holes + teleport...