Akuma vs Demon King Piccolo

Originally posted by Galan007
[B]
My point is that several characters have made "I'm going to destroy this planet" comments. Only 2 have actually done so. Thus the believability of said comments ultimately comes down to writer intent: did Akira have that specific character recite that specific dialogue as a means to convey hyperbole, or fact? More times than not, I'd say fact(whether I agree with the claim or not.)

Typically if a character is speaking in hyperbole, we are informed of such later on in the story.

Except that, as mentioned, the statements and all other feats are way, way, way out of line unless taking figuratively.

Whether you think it fits or not, the fact still remains that Roshi canonically destroyed the moon, yet he was still terrified of KP's power. This implies blatantly tells us that KP was capable of releasing a FAR more devastating attack, otherwise Roshi wouldn't have been worried.

Far more devastating =/= silly more devastating.

The specific technique base Frieza used to destroy a planet doesn't change anything I've said. 😕

Sure it does. If destroying a moon doesn't require much different power than destroying a city, then the other feats fall much more into line.

If one actually requires the power to blow up all that mass, *that's* when things get silly.

Well yeah. I mean, destroying a moon-sized portion of the earth would be more difficult than destroying the moon itself. Why? Because the earth's composition(not factoring in the core) is denser than the moon's per cubic cm.

Point is: destroying a moon is, pound for pound, much easier than destroying a planet. A moon is proportional to space fluff, relative to a planet.

Not that much, not in real life.

Destroying a moon similar to ours is so much greater than destroying a city or any other DB feat it's either not even funny, or totally hilarious, depending on your POV.

I/we have every right to 'lean on' a canon feat. 😕

A massively, massively inconsistent one.

You can't really call it out of sync, because the only time an early-saga character needed to destroy a moon(or something of proportional size) was when Roshi... Destroyed it.

Of course I can call it inconsistent. King Piccolo was tired after his second city-destroying blast.

The power requirement is literally billions of times greater than every other DB feat combined.

Lemme put it this way, you know anti-matter? One kilogram of anti-matter will create a 42 megaton explosion when it comes into contact with matter. Around the size of the blast of the biggest nuclear weapon easily, and easily enough to destroy a city. Bigger than King Piccolo's biggest blasts.

Let's say you had one billion kilograms of anti-matter. Let's say you put it on the moon.

Do you know what you would *not* have? A destroyed moon. You'd simply have a new crater on it, but it'd still be intact and floating there same as ever. That is how tough the moon is.

It's not like other characters around Roshi's level ever tried, and failed, to do so.

But they've tried and failed at far lesser things.

Heck, Roshi needed to *power up* to put out a mere fire in a mountain. His power-up form is insufficient to top King Piccolo,
so it's obviously under 260, or in other words it can, *maybe* double his power.

Needs to double his power to blow out fire on a mountain =/= blowing up the moon.

Originally posted by Q99
I can see, but it's still silly to lean so heavily on such a clear outlier, which is an outlier to a huge extend.

But it is not an outlier.

Roshi: easily destroyed the moon.

King Piccolo who was much stronger than Roshi, claimed to be able to destroy the Earth.

Piccolo, who was a stronger than King Piccolo, easily destroyed the moon with just one hand.

Conclusion: King Piccolo, who claimed to be able to destroy the earth, is not an outlier.

If it were an outlier, then no one except Roshi would have a planet busting level feat (our moon is quite large: large enough to be a planet).

Edit - I just read your fragile core idea. I think you're onto something and that would explain quite a bit. Because, in the anime, when Kid Buu destroys the earth, it isn't a chain reaction and the earth seems to be vaporized, completely. That's significantly, as far as the physics work out, much much more powerful of a blast than the one Frieza used to destroy Vegeta. You may have swayed me to your sexy arguments. uhuh

However, I would note that this is just me conceding the fragile core idea. They still bust moons and planets. They just use a technique to accomplish that. It still counts.

Originally posted by Q99
Sure it does. If destroying a moon doesn't require much different power than destroying a city, then the other feats fall much more into line.

If one actually requires the power to blow up all that mass, *that's* when things get silly.

Originally posted by Q99
Not that much, not in real life.

The earth's density=5.5gm/cm3=88gm/in3. The moon's density= 3.3gm/cm3=53(rounded)gm/in3. This equates to a difference of 2.2gm/cm3=35gm/in3. This may not sound like much initially, but the moon's volume is roughly 1,769,688,578,747,235,840,712,536[in3]. Multiply that number by 53, and then multiply it by 88. That should help you numerically quantify the difference between destroying the moon, and destroying a moon-sized portion of the earth itself.

Suffice to say, the difference is vast. However, you're right in saying that the moon's core is more 'fragile'.

Originally posted by Q99
Destroying a moon similar to ours is so much greater than destroying a city or any other DB feat it's either not even funny, or totally hilarious, depending on your POV.

However, we know Roshi was capable of moon-busting. We know KP was more powerful than Roshi-- to the point that Roshi was scared of him. Assuming that moon-busting(at the very least) wasn't in the realm of possibility for KP is to blatantly ignore canon facts.

Originally posted by Q99
A massively, massively inconsistent one.

I say again: DB/DBZ/DBGT wasn't about racking up feats on an enormous scale-- that's why only 2 characters in the history of these series' have actually done so on panel.

Originally posted by Q99
Of course I can call it inconsistent. King Piccolo was tired after his second city-destroying blast.

Anyway, I'll look into that scene myself, as it seems like some context might be missing. Don't know how else KP can go from casually destroying a city in one instant and being totally fine, to destroying a city in the next instant and being drained...

Originally posted by Q99
The power requirement is literally billions of times greater than every other DB feat combined.

All I'm certain of is that he can release a more powerful attack than Roshi's moon-buster.

Originally posted by Q99
Lemme put it this way, you know anti-matter? One kilogram of anti-matter will create a 42 megaton explosion when it comes into contact with matter. Around the size of the blast of the biggest nuclear weapon easily, and easily enough to destroy a city. Bigger than King Piccolo's biggest blasts.

Let's say you had one billion kilograms of anti-matter. Let's say you put it on the moon.

Do you know what you would *not* have? A destroyed moon. You'd simply have a new crater on it, but it'd still be intact and floating there same as ever. That is how tough the moon is.

Originally posted by Q99
But they've tried and failed at far lesser things.

Heck, Roshi needed to *power up* to put out a mere fire in a mountain. His power-up form is insufficient to top King Piccolo,
so it's obviously under 260, or in other words it can, *maybe* double his power.

Needs to double his power to blow out fire on a mountain =/= blowing up the moon.

That aside, the most recent feats=the most canon. We saw what a full power kamehameha from Roshi was capable of when he fought Goku. Unless a more recent showing contradicts it, then that showing takes precedence when talking about his potential.

And how do you know that the moons core is more fragile? science dosnt even prove that?

Originally posted by ShadeSlayer15
And how do you know that the moons core is more fragile?

Originally posted by Galan007
You cling to your perceived "inconsistencies", yet you call that a "consistent" showing? Interesting.

Anyway, I'll look into that scene myself, as it seems like some context might be missing. Don't know how else KP can go from casually destroying a city in one instant and being totally fine, to destroying a city in the next instant and being drained...

I replied to that line of reasoning, of Q99's, already:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Don't you think you're taking that out of context?

King Piccolo had no long period of rest since even the scans I used. He had been fighting against people for quite a bit, by that point, including Goku. Does it not make more sense that he has used up a lot of energy fighting Goku than it does a blast that falls into his casual range? You'd be correct if he said, "I am really tired after that last blast, but.."

Or...

"You are really tired after that last blast..." if Goku had said it.

Cool, thanks. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
In the real world: composition.
In fiction: the fact that it's fiction.

And once again, you put a pic or a smart ass comment to avoid the argument, nice one buddy, you have no basis for what you stated

Wait, what? You are the only person who has brought up the specific techniques used to destroy a planet. All I/we have said is that KP may have very well been able to to destroy a planet. I/we never commented on how he would go about doing so.

The point is if planets/moons in DB are destroyed by techniques that don't require much *power*, and are rather exploiting a weakness, then they are not, for all of their flash, representative of the kind of energies one thinks of when one says 'planet busting,' in the sense the Death Star does it.

That is to say, if it's taking advantage of things by destroying a core or what have you, said moves would be ineffective against something as tough as a planet but without said weakness. Including planets that aren't set up that way.

You cling to your perceived "inconsistencies", yet you call that a "consistent" showing? Interesting.

It's inconsistent with the moon thing. If one has the power to destroy a moon, a million planet busting shots should leave one untired, rather than showing exertion after two.

I still don't think you guys are grasping the raw scale difference between that feat and everything else...

It's like the difference between having a superhuman runner be twice as fast as Usain Bolt, or a thousand times as fast as a bullet. If every runner in a series is shown as the former, then you suddenly have the latter, then it goes back to the former, it's an inconsistency.

Originally posted by Q99
The point is if planets/moons in DB are destroyed by techniques that don't require much *power*, and are rather exploiting a weakness, then they are not, for all of their flash, representative of the kind of energies one thinks of when one says 'planet busting,' in the sense the Death Star does it.

That is to say, if it's taking advantage of things by destroying a core or what have you, said moves would be ineffective against something as tough as a planet but without said weakness. Including planets that aren't set up that way.

Releasing moon-busting++ energies, however, should have been well within KP's ability, given Roshi's reaction to his power-- and I don't think world-busting is entirely out of the question. That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by Q99
It's inconsistent with the moon thing. If one has the power to destroy a moon, a million planet busting shots should leave one untired, rather than showing exertion after two.

Either way, in DBZ h2h fights(even short ones) drain moon/planet/solar system/galaxy-busters faster than anything else. So if KP was continuously engaged in h2h battles in between the two city-busting feats, as DDM said, that would explain why he was tired.

Originally posted by Q99
I still don't think you guys are grasping the raw scale difference between that feat and everything else...

Just because most of the characters in DB(even some of the early-saga characters) can release high-end energy attacks, doesn't mean they need to do so in every single battle for us to know they can. That, again, is why only 2 characters in DB's 10+ year history have destroyed a planet on panel. Simply put: rarely ever does the plot in DB call for feats on that scale-- Akira was more concerned with storytelling then appeasing berserker fanboys.

Originally posted by Q99
I still don't think you guys are grasping the raw scale difference between that feat and everything else...

I was fairly specific with how well I understood the scale difference between the Moon and the Earth. Isn't, "82 times more massive than the moon," specific enough? I mean, to me, that demonstrates that I have a firm grasp of that moon busting feat and an earth busting feat.

And if King Piccolo states he can destroy the land area of the earth by 1/41, with a casual blast, then, yeah, I am pretty sure King Piccolo could fire off thousands of those and be alright.

Seems there are different types of blasts for different types of occasions. This is not a new DB fan-theory, either. You have kind of hinted at it, already. The two types of blasts (there are four, actually) are those that intend to inflict the most harm against another character and those that intend to cause the most physical destruction. Concentrated explosions vs. showy explosions. The showy ones do the most physical damage and can also damage other characters, easily, too. But it has the bad side-effect of also blowing up a planet or more so they have to use the first kind which is the concentrated kind that does an absurd amount of damage in a very small contained area.

That's just a fan theory to explain Toriyama's clearly differing blast types. I believe he got a question like that in a Q and A before and his response was more something like, "I didn't put that much thought into it."

Every blast in DBZ doesn't have to blow up a planet for it to be>>>than planet busting. Collateral damage doesn't always dictate the amount of power being used...especially in DBZ.

Absolutely correct. 👆

Originally posted by carver9
Every blast in DBZ doesn't have to blow up a planet for it to be>>>than planet busting. Collateral damage doesn't always dictate the amount of power being used...[b]especially in DBZ. [/B]

Indeed.

Originally posted by Galan007