Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
not sure 'bout faster. In failing health, Krayt has blitzed 4 imperial knights, although I do not know the competence of these knights, it's impressive nonetheless.
They were the Emperor's Guard, including his cousin, and most of the knights we've seen are rather skilled (they're a smaller organization than the Jedi or Sith, so they seem more select).
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Krayt wins in just about every area sans TK and possibly skill, strength and FL.
So basically only the most important ones then.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
However, in the end he's faster,
Nah.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
has powerful Force Illusions,
Bane resisted Zannahs Illusions and Kaan's telepathy.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Dark Transfer,
Admittedly a feather in his cap.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
and all aspects that he's inferior to Bane in are by rather small margins.
Small perhaps but overall I think they'll prove quite significant.
Originally posted by Nephthys
So basically only the most important ones then.Nah.
Bane resisted Zannahs Illusions and Kaan's telepathy.
Admittedly a feather in his cap.
Small [b]perhaps
but overall I think they'll prove quite significant. [/B]
1. I wouldn't say strength is among the most important things in a battle--Especially because DoE Bane's physically not much stronger than Krayt. Force Lightning is also not that important here, considering either of the combatants can stop each-other's lightning with their lightsabers, and if nothing else Krayt's Tutaminis is more than enough to absorb it. Telekinesis and Skill are crucial in a battle, and Bane just might have those edges. However, Krayt's TK was good enough to throw boulders, shatter stone, and practically ragdoll Cade. Bane can crush people's bones and internal organs with Force Waves, and smashed through the stone supports of the Temple of the Ancients and caused it to implode, though only while on a Nexus. Their difference in TK ability is not enough that I'd consider it an important advantage on Bane's part. As for skill, Bane really has few feats but from his descriptions in battle it's obvious he's a master of both brute approaches and luring ones. Krayt's skills are hard to gauge, but the fact that Cade was ultimately outmatched in saber combat makes me believe that saying Bane's equal to superior at all is generous to him. All in all, Bane's advantages will probably make little difference in this battle.
2. Yeah, he is faster. He's blitzed 3 high-status Imperial Knights while his health was diminished, and Imperial Knights are on average superior to Jedi. Bane's speed feat of deflecting a downpour of rain is an impressive speed feat--But considering people like Qui-Gon Jinn can create energy shields with their lightsaber, and Obi-Wan can deflect fire from over 20 shooters at once, this feat is not that abnormal. How many rain pellets would drop onto the surface of his body at once? Ten? Twenty? Well, considering that Bane could swat off several drops with a swing of his blade, this is not infeasible--Especially for someone who can blitz high level Jedi-like opponents.
3. Bane resisted Zannah's sorcery with a lot of trouble mind you, and had she attempted to cut him down while he was distracted instead of playing it safe, she might have been able to win the fight then and there. In all honesty, Krayt's/Wyyrlok's Dark Illusions are not that much weaker than Zannah's from what we've seen. Krayt utilized it effectively against a Skywalker for ****'s sake, and Wyyrlok utilized it effectively against him.
4. Yeah, it is pretty crucial to his victory, though it's possible he could win without it. Though, if he does what he did to Cade--Distracting Bane with Force Illusions, then grabbing him with his hands the fight is basically over. But assuming his illusions are dispelled first, Krayt can still use this ability to heal injuries like broken ribs (Zannah vs Bane anyone?), and gashes from Bane's lightsaber almost instantaneously. The fact that Krayt can shrug off most injuries (Though I don't think he can regenerate limbs or anything), is a distinct advantage over Bane. If Zannah had this ability, her victory might have been much smoother.
5. I addressed this in #1. Most of these advantages are insignificant, and the ones that are significant are so close that it hardly makes a difference. (If Bane even has these advantages)
Overall, I simply find Krayt to be more powerful than Bane. Considering Zannah (minus her tendrils) was still able to hold her own and almost fight equally with Bane, Krayt should be able to as well. Considering that he's arguably a better duelist than her, arguably faster, arguably equivalent TK, and arguably similar powers with Force Illusions, but with greater strength, Lightning, Tutaminis, hand-to-hand martial prowess, and Dark Transfer on top of that.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
1. I wouldn't say strength is among the most important things in a battle--Especially because DoE Bane's physically not much stronger than Krayt.
I'd say its not insignificant for your opponent to suffer and be worn down more every time you clash sabers.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Force Lightning is also not that important here, considering either of the combatants can stop each-other's lightning with their lightsabers, and if nothing else Krayt's Tutaminis is more than enough to absorb it.
Didn't Krayt get pwned by Muur's lightning?
Banes lightning is among the most powerful in the mythos. He can disintegrate rock with it. Can Krayt truly block it?
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Telekinesis and Skill are crucial in a battle, and Bane just might have those edges. However, Krayt's TK was good enough to throw boulders, shatter stone, and practically ragdoll Cade. Bane can crush people's bones and internal organs with Force Waves, and smashed through the stone supports of the Temple of the Ancients and caused it to implode, though only while on a Nexus. Their difference in TK ability is not enough that I'd consider it an important advantage on Bane's part.
Throwing rocks and shattering stone isn't as impressive as disintegration of metal with his power greatly diminished.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
As for skill, Bane really has few feats but from his descriptions in battle it's obvious he's a master of both brute approaches and luring ones. Krayt's skills are hard to gauge, but the fact that Cade was ultimately outmatched in saber combat makes me believe that saying Bane's equal to superior at all is generous to him. All in all, Bane's advantages will probably make little difference in this battle.
What makes Cade so great?
Originally posted by NewGuy01
2. Yeah, he is faster. He's blitzed 3 high-status Imperial Knights while his health was diminished, and Imperial Knights are on average superior to Jedi.
He wasn't able to blitz Celeste Morne though. Blitzing these guys is good, but it doesn't put him above Bane. It doesn't even put him on the same level. Its one feat. Bane is consistently extremely fast and has great speed feats a plenty.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Bane's speed feat of deflecting a downpour of rain is an impressive speed feat--But considering people like Qui-Gon Jinn can create energy shields with their lightsaber,
Hyperbole.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
and Obi-Wan can deflect fire from over 20 shooters at once, this feat is not that abnormal.
When did he doe this? Also Bane was fast enough to appear to wield a dozen lightsabers to Zannah. Which is above this feat by quite a bit imo.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
How many rain pellets would drop onto the surface of his body at once? Ten? Twenty? Well, considering that Bane could swat off several drops with a swing of his blade, this is not infeasible--Especially for someone who can blitz high level Jedi-like opponents.
Erm, a bit more than that I'd say. Lol. Zam did the math and it was really damn fast. And Bane was dodging individual drops while doing it and he didn't have the help of his precognition either. He'd be reacting to the rain by himself.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
3. Bane resisted Zannah's sorcery with a lot of trouble mind you, and had she attempted to cut him down while he was distracted instead of playing it safe, she might have been able to win the fight then and there. In all honesty, Krayt's/Wyyrlok's Dark Illusions are not that much weaker than Zannah's from what we've seen. Krayt utilized it effectively against a Skywalker for ****'s sake, and Wyyrlok utilized it effectively against him.
See what SIDIOUS 66 said. And Zannah didn't attack Bane because it was taking all her concentration to hold him. I seriously doubt Krayt would be able to do better and attack Bane while trying to affect him with his illusions.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
4. Yeah, it is pretty crucial to his victory, though it's possible he could win without it. Though, if he does what he did to Cade--Distracting Bane with Force Illusions, then grabbing him with his hands the fight is basically over. But assuming his illusions are dispelled first, Krayt can still use this ability to heal injuries like broken ribs (Zannah vs Bane anyone?), and gashes from Bane's lightsaber almost instantaneously. The fact that Krayt can shrug off most injuries (Though I don't think he can regenerate limbs or anything), is a distinct advantage over Bane. If Zannah had this ability, her victory might have been much smoother.
I believe this was called out in a previous thread as Krayt does not have to ability to regenerate instantly.
And the same can be said on Banes abilities. If he hits him with TK or lightning Krayt is not going to be getting up before he is finished off.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
5. I addressed this in #1. Most of these advantages are insignificant, and the ones that are significant are so close that it hardly makes a difference. (If Bane even has these advantages)
Better skill, better strength, better speed, better TK and vastly superior lightning don't seem insignificant to me. It indicates that he is all around a superior combatant.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Overall, I simply find Krayt to be more powerful than Bane.
In what area? No offense but I'm not seeing a superiority in any area in regards to power. The only advantages he has are in techniques Bane does not possess, which do not indicate more power.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Considering Zannah (minus her tendrils) was still able to hold her own and almost fight equally with Bane, Krayt should be able to as well. Considering that he's arguably a better duelist than her, arguably faster, arguably equivalent TK, and arguably similar powers with Force Illusions, but with greater strength, Lightning, Tutaminis, hand-to-hand martial prowess, and Dark Transfer on top of that.
Thats an awful lot of arguablies. 😐
As an aside I'd be curious of Tempests opinion because of his new knowledge of Legacy, but his also new heracy regarding Bane makes me suspect I don't want to know.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd say its not insignificant for your opponent to suffer and be worn down more every time you clash sabers.Didn't Krayt get pwned by Muur's lightning?
Banes lightning is among the most powerful in the mythos. He can disintegrate rock with it. Can Krayt truly block it?
Throwing rocks and shattering stone isn't as impressive as disintegration of metal with his power greatly diminished.
What makes Cade so great?
He wasn't able to blitz Celeste Morne though. Blitzing these guys is good, but it doesn't put him above Bane. It doesn't even put him on the same level. Its one feat. Bane is consistently extremely fast and has great speed feats a plenty.
Hyperbole.
When did he doe this? Also Bane was fast enough to appear to wield a dozen lightsabers to Zannah. Which is above this feat by quite a bit imo.
Erm, a bit more than that I'd say. Lol. Zam did the math and it was really damn fast. And Bane was dodging individual drops while doing it and he didn't have the help of his precognition either. He'd be reacting to the rain by himself.
See what SIDIOUS 66 said. And Zannah didn't attack Bane because it was taking all her concentration to hold him. I seriously doubt Krayt would be able to do better and attack Bane while trying to affect him with his illusions.
I believe this was called out in a previous thread as Krayt does not have to ability to regenerate instantly.
And the same can be said on Banes abilities. If he hits him with TK or lightning Krayt is not going to be getting up before he is finished off.
Better skill, better strength, better speed, better TK and vastly superior lightning don't seem insignificant to me. It indicates that he is all around a superior combatant.
In what area? No offense but I'm not seeing a superiority in any area in regards to power. The only advantages he has are in techniques Bane does not possess, which do not indicate more power.
Thats an awful lot of arguablies. 😐
As an aside I'd be curious of Tempests opinion because of his new knowledge of Legacy, but his also new heracy regarding Bane makes me suspect I don't want to know.
1. Except that Krayt is close to as strong as DoE Bane. While Bane is still among the strongest characters in the mythos--He isn't exactly in his peak in DoE. And Krayt is pretty fit himself.
2. While insurmountably weakened, yeah. After his resurrection his power increases exponentially.
3. Since when can DoE Bane disintegrate rock with Force Lightning? Anyway, Zannah was able to effortlessly block Bane's lightning, and physically she's hardly comparable to Krayt. And with Tutaminis, he effortlessly absorbed Wyyrlok's lightning--Which was powerful enough to kill creatures on contact.
4. His power greatly diminished? Orbalisk Bane's power is far beyond that of DoE Bane. I'm not arguing RoT Bane against Krayt, here. This is DoE Bane, and he's done nothing of that tier without Orbalisks.
5. Force-Wise, he's thrown an X-wing sized starship at Darth Talon pretty early in the series, a ways before his peak. That should be an indicator of his power right there. Plus, you know, being able to single-handedly defeat dozens of Sith Lords, and by the end of the series easily beat powerful Sith like Talon and Stryfe. He's also got Dark Transfer and is hugely proficient with it. Krayt kinda threw him around the room with TK.
6. The raindrop feat is his only truly great speed feat. He has other decent ones, but none of them amount to blitzing 3 high-status Imperial Knights while severely weakened.
7. Not at all.
8. Well, under descriptions of Soresu in a sourcebook (I'll look for which one later) that a true master of the form could deflect fire from up to 30 shooters. And considering that Kenobi is "the master of Soresu" I would say that he's included in that grouping. Also--Bane's feat of having a dozen afterimages is done with his Orbalisks. Nice try, but DoE Bane hasn't committed a speed feat of this caliber against Zannah in their final battle.
9. No help from precognition? This isn't stated anywhere. I call BS. Still, it's impressive especially seeing that he's not primarily a Soresu master.
10. Well, that's what she believed. It even said in the novel that "she didn't want to take any chances". I think if she had attacked then she might have killed him. Perhaps not. Anyway, Wyyrlok was able to utilize this against a fully conscious Krayt. Though he was able to resist it in the end, Wyyrlok did have an opening, and lost it while chattering away. I believe Krayt's is of great enough caliber to at least be useful in this battle at some point or another.
11. I didn't say instantly. But considering Cade has healed moderate/minor wounds during combat, and that Krayt was stated to be an even greater master of Dark Transfer than he, I think that with any short pause in the battle he could heal something like a broken rib in the gap between clashes. And as I said, Bane's lightning isn't reaching Krayt, and considering that his TK attacks couldn't overwhelm Kas'im or Zannah I don't believe he could disable a powerful Sith Lord like Krayt with a simple TK attack so easily. A TK barrier could probably stop any immediate damage for the most part. However, there is no counter to a Dark Transfer assault.
12. Arguably better skill. He's not faster. He's probably better in TK, I'll give him that--Though Krayt's no slouch (refer to 5). And honestly, Bane's best non-orbalisk lightning feat is charring the flesh of a non-force sensative gaurd with his lightning. Krayt has instantly killed several Tu'kata beasts with a burst of lightning. I wouldn't say that's a vast difference.
13. Well, every area that Bane is superior to Krayt it's seemingly very close in power. (TK and FL, basically.) and Krayt's greater variety of powers that he's mastered to a high extent (Force Illusions, Dark Transfer) are powers that Bane cannot even utilize, and has little defense against. Plus, Krayt's feat of sending a signal to all in the galaxy that ever touched the Dark Side is a pretty immense power feat. A similar feat left Luke himself exhausted. And both mastered Essence Transfer, so I'm not going to factor that in. Bane's drain is practically inapplicable in combat according to the man himself.
14. Yeah, there is a lot of arguables. But what I'm saying is that Krayt is arguably close/even/better than Zannah in all of her areas of expertise, and on top of that he has talents that she is a novice of/doesn't even know about. She was practically an equal to DoE Bane (Slightly inferior, until Tendrils) and Krayt is better than her.
15. Unless he's read the final volume, I wouldn't want him to judge just yet. The final volume is where Krayt's "reborn" power is displayed. All of the other comics show an inferior, weakened version of Krayt.
I'd put Krayt ever so slightly above DoE Zannah after she killed Bane. (Since you know, Ro2 Sith gain a power boost after killing their masters?)