Darth Krayt vs Darth Bane (DoE)

Didn't Krayt get pwned by Muur's lightning?

Not exactly. He engaged Muur in a lightning duel, then got a lightsaber through the neck, then got hit by Muur's lightning with his own added for good measure.

He did not lose in a direct lightning contest, he was stabbed from behind.

What makes Cade so great?

So powerful he can bring people back from death, shatterpoint, even when rusty threw a transport as a projectile, used TK to casually walk out of a *huge* explosions of a base he was in blowing up, that kind of stuff.

I believe this was called out in a previous thread as Krayt does not have to ability to regenerate instantly.

It depends on the wound. Dark Transfer has quickly healed some wounds, some take more effort. It turns a draw into a win, plus it can be used offensively to kill.

He wasn't able to blitz Celeste Morne though.

Nor could Vader, and Krayt fought a Morne who was over a century older and drawing on the Muur talisman.

Blitzing these guys is good, but it doesn't put him above Bane. It doesn't even put him on the same level. Its one feat.

It doesn't put him lower.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
5. Force-Wise, he's thrown an X-wing sized starship at Darth Talon pretty early in the series, a ways before his peak. That should be an indicator of his power right there. Plus, you know, being able to single-handedly defeat dozens of Sith Lords, and by the end of the series easily beat powerful Sith like Talon and Stryfe. He's also got Dark Transfer and is hugely proficient with it. Krayt kinda threw him around the room with TK.

Originally posted by Q99
So powerful he can bring people back from death, shatterpoint, even when rusty threw a transport as a projectile, used TK to casually walk out of a *huge* explosions of a base he was in blowing up, that kind of stuff.

I meant in terms of lightsaber skill.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I meant in terms of lightsaber skill.

In terms of lightsaber skill? In his era, he loses no one. He is hard-pressed by no-one. Wyyrlok, end-series Cade, and Morne-drawing-on-Muur can hold off for a bit, and of those Wyyrlok is the only one he wanted dead.

Notably, we see other force-users in the era who are quite skilled. Antares Draco killed 7 sith warriors mobbing him at once (after he'd already killed two minutes earlier), and he's less than Cade. There's a bit where we see five Sith cut down a Jedi master and a knight, and then Shado and Sazen slay them in moments. And there's a few other times when we see people who are two, maybe three good-sized tiers lower than Krayt kill force users- some who just scored kills themselves- like it's going out of fashion.

Urgh, no I meant what has Cade done that makes him so great in lightsaber skill! What makes Krayt beating Cade so great!

Ahahahaha facepalm

This might be a split actually.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Urgh, no I meant what has [b]Cade done that makes him so great in lightsaber skill! What makes Krayt beating Cade so great!

Ahahahaha facepalm [/B]

He raped Talon pretty damn badly in the last volume. Stalemated/was beating Imperial Knight: Draco in a lightsaber duel, and the same Draco later defeated Roan Fel--Former Emperor of the Galaxy, and leader of the Imperial Knights. He's also cut his way through dozens of Sith on his way to Krayt, and pretty early in the series defeated Darth Nihl--Who in turn killed Kol Skywalker. It's needless to say that Cade was the best duelist in the galaxy sans Krayt by the last volume.

And Krayt isn't even hard pressed by him, from what we see in the comic. They duel for a couple pages, Krayt casually taking a clear advantage, then sent Cade crashing across the room with a TK attack.

Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]
When did he doe this? Also Bane was fast enough to appear to wield a dozen lightsabers to Zannah. Which is above this feat by quite a bit imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]
Erm, a bit more than that I'd say. Lol. Zam did the math and it was really damn fast. And Bane was dodging individual drops while doing it and he didn't have the help of his precognition either. He'd be reacting to the rain by himself.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Urgh, no I meant what has [b]Cade done that makes him so great in lightsaber skill! What makes Krayt beating Cade so great!
[/B]

I suppose the easiest way to put it is, Cade fights... pretty much everyone.

I mean, here's a list of his major opponents:
Darth Talon, Darth Nihl, Darth Stryfe, Wolf Sazen, Shado Vao, Antares Draco, Ganner Krieg, Darth Maladi

And I'm probably forgetting one or two others.

He's stronger than any of them, and all of whom, in turn, have been in impressive other fights, either killing other masters, defeating large numbers of force users at once in saber, or similar. He's even done well in two-on-one fights against people on that list.

Most of the featured Jedi/Sith/Imperial Knights in Legacy are demonstrated to be very good with a saber, have feats to back it up, and beat just about everyone not on said list, often good quantities of everyone not on that list. I think probably 4~5 of the above have double-digit lightsaber kill counts, talking purely on panel fights.

Plus Cade's also killed a good deal of minor sith himself- his time between the end of the main series and War is literally as a Sith-hunter, collecting Sith bounties for the Hutts. Including ones who mention having killed Jedi masters, plural, before.

NewGuy, IIRC, you gave Krayt an edge over Dooku as well. So my question is, who would you consider to be the better combatant out of Dooku and DOE Bane?

I think I'd go with Dooku, though I'm not positive.

Legacy is fairly easy to rate internally. Cade fights many characters, and a lot of these characters also fight each other for cross-reference. It's one of the longer comics, and the three-way conflict results in more fights than most. 80% of the major Jedi/Sith/Imperial Knights are in a web of having fought each other.

Krayt seems to be the only one who achieved real immortality...Temporarily..

Vitiate.

Darth Bane after a decent fight, IMO. Sidious regarded Bane and Plagueis as among his strongest predecessors which should mean something.

I would not say that this contest is utterly in favor of Bane though; Krayt may have a chance under some circumstances at minimum.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Bane after a decent fight, IMO. Sidious regarded Bane and Plagueis as among his strongest predecessors which should mean something.

I think it mainly means that Bane's from a time when he could act openly and thus had the most actions to talk about, and Plagueis is the one he had direct experience with. The point was to build strength over time, after all.

Darth Krayt worked directly from the learning of one of top the Hundred Year Darkness Sith, and they were massive badasses. Which should also mean something.

The point was not to simply become more powerful. Bane was more powerful than any Jedi in his era. Or any two Jedi in his era. If all they needed were personal strength Banes time was the best time for the RoT Sith. There was no Yoda or Mace Windu to stand in their way.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The point was not to simply become more powerful. Bane was more powerful than any Jedi in his era. Or any two Jedi in his era. If all they needed were personal strength Banes time was the best time for the RoT Sith. There was no Yoda or Mace Windu to stand in their way.

Though I don't think the 'any two' would've been true pre-Thought Bomb.

But interesting concept- most RoT sith being stronger in some other fashion, only growing back to the high levels of personal strength towards the end.

Hmm, perhaps. Lord Hoth never struck me as all that great though. Not better than Raskta or anything. Even Farfalla was described as having perfect lightsaber form and Bane beat him ass pretty easily.

I think its a concept with some merit. Zannah wasn't conventionally strong in battle but was powerful in Sorcery. Cognus was strong not because of any noted affinity with the Force (That I know of. I don't believe her power was stated as exceptional) but rather because of a unique ability she possessed that weakened others. And Millennial possessed advanced precognitive ability. Plagueis himself expanded in other areas like his midichlorian manipulation. Then came Sidious who was both conventionally strong and apparently possessed the same ability as Cognus(?) and had impressive precog, seemingly possessing all the strengths of the previous Sith.

Of course theres other aspects I'm talking about, in terms of destabilizing the Republic, building power bases and contacts, amassing agents, unbalancing the Force etc.

Lord Hoth never struck me as all that great though.

We never saw him fight, so it's hard to tell.

Also, there could've been other Jedi Lords there who were skilled but just not mentioned- they had Kaan cornered, and Kaan had all the remaining strong Sith with him. I didn't get the impression the Jedi army was that much bigger but it was winning.

Vitiate's immortality was predicated upon the millions of souls he "ate" during his ritual. Krayt went from old to young, sick to healed, same body, everything.