Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Actually, I think Revan is better at combating the likes of Vitiate. Why? because since Revan lacks saber feats, and hasn't really showing too many devastatingly powerful offensive force applications, he wouldn't do too well against someone who outclasses him in saber combat like Sidious. So logically he'd want to fight someone like Vitiate, who isn't a user of lightsabers.
You forgot how easily he outdueled an Imperial Guard individual. Force Mastery makes lot of difference even in a lightsaber duel.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It's not ABC logic. Sidious is the grossly superior combatant to Vitiate.
It doesn't surprises me that Sidious chose to become a Sith Sorcerer to further hone his talents in the dark side.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Revan is outmatched in speed, force, and raw saber mastery. How the **** can he overcome ROTS Sidious? Let alone DE Sidious?
The magnitude of raw power that Revan may have expended on dispatching Nyriss is seriously underestimated. The latter is a dark side prodigy who overwhelmed not one but two heavyweights of the mythos (among these is one who have fought Nihilus, Traya and Sion). Not to forget that Revan had sufficient energy and speed to hang with 4 of the galaxy's most dangerous combatants for a while even after enduring 300 years of torture of epic proportions. To give you an idea of how potent this Imperial Strike Team was: Revan have history of fighting and defeating armies of Sith and Mandalorians.
I wonder if Revan had actually exceeded his biological limitations with his sheer master of the Force.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Revan is underrated as hell because of his lack of feats. He's in all likelihood not that far below Vitiate. There is no evidence Revan would have gotten stronger from his Revan novel incarnation. He sure as hell isn't stronger after being tortured for 300 years. I'll search for the passage, but I am fairly certain that when Revan's memory returns when he puts his mask on he's at max power. I don't have to prove he was at his peak you have to prove he would have gotten stronger.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I put him at about Dooku and Mace's level, which is reinforced by Karpyshyn's statement that Vader~Revan~Bane. But in a battledome fight I can't place Revan above Dooku in a fight based on personal intuition alone.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also these hypothetical threads are stupid, as they play on the OPs personal fantasy of Revan's powerlevel in the mythos and is intended to be a gigantic circle jerk of what Revan "could have been".
Originally posted by Petrus
Yeah, Drew completely screwed up the Exile for two possible reasons:a) They told him to stay away from KOTOR II as much as possible
or,
b) He didn't ****ing play KOTOR II or even bother to read about Meetra's feats in the game
Either one sucks. She had much potential.
In-fact, I recommend you to check this out: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t585880.html
"Part of the fun with designing them," he adds, "was if you have these incredibly powerful Force users and they have their whole hidden domain out in the distant reaches of the galaxy, what would that Sith empire really look like at the hands of these things?
If they could shape entire planets or galaxies or nebulas, and they had all these slave races at their disposal, how cool would that be, to go into the heart of darkness and you're the lone Jedi and/or new version of the Sith confronting these guys? What would that be like? I thought that would be pretty epic." (Source for this information in the link)
Even Chris envisioned paragons of True Sith as "incredibly powerful Force-users." So it doesn't surprises me if Jedi Exile was outmatched by them.
From Drew's novel:-
Malak had been his right hand during the campaign against the Mandalorians. But Malak was dead; Revan would get no answers there. Yet there had been another—a powerful Jedi named Meetra Surik. Meetra had been among the first to join Revan’s cause, and she quickly proved herself to be a brilliant tactician and military leader.
Recognizing her potential, Revan had made her a general, giving her control over nearly half of the Republic and Jedi troops under his command. Meetra had been instrumental in defeating the Mandalorians, dealing them a devastating blow during the Battle of Malachor V … though at a cost nearly impossible to fathom.
More;
Led by a woman named Kreia, the rogue Jedi turned to the dark side teachings uncovered by Malak and Revan. Kreia took the name Darth Traya, and her followers called themselves the Sith after the long-lost species that had invaded the Republic a millennium before. They began a systemic purge of the galaxy, hunting down those who still held fast to the Jedi Code, killing them by the tens of thousands. Their relentless pursuit virtually wiped out the Order, and only those few who managed to flee or hide survived.
Had Revan returned to face this new threat, Bastila would have eagerly fought by his side. Together they might have been able to quell the uprising, ending it before the horrors of war enveloped the Republic and millions lost their lives. But she had heard nothing of her husband since he had set off with Canderous four years earlier.
Alone, she dared not challenge Darth Traya and her followers. Instead, she had focused on keeping her son alive. It had been the Exile—Meetra Surik—who had taken up the fight against the rogue Jedi. Three years after Revan's unsuccessful attempt to locate her, she had emerged on her own to oppose and eventually defeat Darth Traya. Like Revan before her, she became the savior of the galaxy. And also as with Revan, there were many who felt her recent actions could not atone for the sins of her past.
More;
She'd heard rumors that a Mandalorian had aided the Exile in her battle against Darth Traya.
More;
Meetra had been close enough to feel the shock wave; to survive it she had cut herself off from the Force, shielding her psyche against the horrors of what she had unleashed. Many years had passed before she regained her connection to the Force, but in the end, surviving the trauma of Malachor V had given her the strength to defeat Darth Traya and her followers.
So where exactly Drew went wrong?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Obsidian didn't do its homework either when it developed KoTOR II. Why is Drew being singled out for ridicule?In-fact, I recommend you to check this out: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t585880.html
"Part of the fun with designing them," he adds, "was if you have these incredibly powerful Force users and they have their whole hidden domain out in the distant reaches of the galaxy, what would that Sith empire really look like at the hands of these things?
If they could shape entire planets or galaxies or nebulas, and they had all these slave races at their disposal, how cool would that be, to go into the heart of darkness and you're the lone Jedi and/or new version of the Sith confronting these guys? What would that be like? I thought that would be pretty epic." (Source for this information in the link)
Even Chris envisioned paragons of True Sith as "incredibly powerful Force-users." So it doesn't surprises me if Jedi Exile was outmatched by them.
From Drew's novel:-
Malak had been his right hand during the campaign against the Mandalorians. But Malak was dead; Revan would get no answers there. Yet there had been another—a powerful Jedi named Meetra Surik. Meetra had been among the first to join Revan’s cause, and she quickly proved herself to be a brilliant tactician and military leader.
Recognizing her potential, Revan had made her a general, giving her control over nearly half of the Republic and Jedi troops under his command. Meetra had been instrumental in defeating the Mandalorians, dealing them a devastating blow during the Battle of Malachor V … though at a cost nearly impossible to fathom.
More;
Led by a woman named Kreia, the rogue Jedi turned to the dark side teachings uncovered by Malak and Revan. Kreia took the name Darth Traya, and her followers called themselves the Sith after the long-lost species that had invaded the Republic a millennium before. They began a systemic purge of the galaxy, hunting down those who still held fast to the Jedi Code, killing them by the tens of thousands. Their relentless pursuit virtually wiped out the Order, and only those few who managed to flee or hide survived.
Had Revan returned to face this new threat, Bastila would have eagerly fought by his side. Together they might have been able to quell the uprising, ending it before the horrors of war enveloped the Republic and millions lost their lives. But she had heard nothing of her husband since he had set off with Canderous four years earlier.
Alone, she dared not challenge Darth Traya and her followers. Instead, she had focused on keeping her son alive. It had been the Exile—Meetra Surik—who had taken up the fight against the rogue Jedi. Three years after Revan's unsuccessful attempt to locate her, she had emerged on her own to oppose and eventually defeat Darth Traya. Like Revan before her, she became the savior of the galaxy. And also as with Revan, there were many who felt her recent actions could not atone for the sins of her past.
More;
She'd heard rumors that a Mandalorian had aided the Exile in her battle against Darth Traya.
More;
Meetra had been close enough to feel the shock wave; to survive it she had cut herself off from the Force, shielding her psyche against the horrors of what she had unleashed. Many years had passed before she regained her connection to the Force, but in the end, surviving the trauma of Malachor V had given her the strength to defeat Darth Traya and her followers.
So where exactly Drew went wrong?
"Killing them in the tens of thousands"
There were under a hundred Jedi left at the Conclave at Katarr, this is stated multiple times in KOTOR II.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That was just one event. Every member of Sith Triumvirate was involved in purging of the Jedi.
Most of the Jedi died during the Jedi Civil War. More were hunted slowly, but I highly doubt the Sith Triumvirate was able to kill 10s of thousands with the Republic still being there.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
"Killing them in the tens of thousands"There were under a hundred Jedi left at the Conclave at Katarr, this is stated multiple times in KOTOR II.
👆
Yep, it's mentioned that after the Jedi Civil War only around a hundred Jedi are left alive and most of them are killed at Katarr. I'll see if I can find the source quick.
Edit:
Here we go.
"The Jedi Civil War destroyed the Jedi. By the war's end, barely a hundred Jedi remained. Many fell in battle... and many more were seduced by Revan's teachings."
―Kreia
"Only a handful of us remained after the Jedi Civil War, barely a hundred in number. Then even that hundred began to disappear, in places where the Force seemed blind. The only pattern we determined [was] that when Jedi gathered, they were seen no more. At the last Jedi conclave on Katarr, the entire planet was wiped out. An entire race, destroyed… because the Jedi chose to gather there. It was only then that we realized that we were facing something far more powerful than we knew how to fight."
―Zez-Kai Ell
Biggest problem though is the Exile never feeling a void in the force... lol
Also gotta love how Drew keeps referring to Traya's followers as "rogue Jedi" rather than "Sith"....
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Obsidian didn't do its homework either when it developed KoTOR II.
What mistakes did they make?
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Most of the Jedi died during the Jedi Civil War. More were hunted slowly, but I highly doubt the Sith Triumvirate was able to kill 10s of thousands with the Republic still being there.
Sith Triumvirate struck some years after Jedi Civil War and successfully purged it.
Originally posted by ares834
👆Yep, it's mentioned that after the Jedi Civil War only around a hundred Jedi are left alive and most of them are killed at Katarr. I'll see if I can find the source quick.
Edit:
Here we go.
"The Jedi Civil War destroyed the Jedi. By the war's end, barely a hundred Jedi remained. Many fell in battle... and many more were seduced by Revan's teachings."
―Kreia"Only a handful of us remained after the Jedi Civil War, barely a hundred in number. Then even that hundred began to disappear, in places where the Force seemed blind. The only pattern we determined [was] that when Jedi gathered, they were seen no more. At the last Jedi conclave on Katarr, the entire planet was wiped out. An entire race, destroyed… because the Jedi chose to gather there. It was only then that we realized that we were facing something far more powerful than we knew how to fight."
―Zez-Kai EllBiggest problem though is the Exile never feeling a void in the force... lol
Also gotta love how Drew keeps referring to Traya's followers as "rogue Jedi" rather than "Sith"....
Originally posted by ares834
What mistakes did they make?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-31-fear-is-the-path-to-the-dark-side
As integral as Revan was and is to the Knights of the Old Republic experience, when Obsidian first started working on KOTOR2 - the studio's first game - no one in the team had heard of him. "We hadn't played the original game," Avellone reveals. "LucasArts hadn't signed the contract before we started working on it, so even though we were getting paid for milestones, they didn't want to give anyone a release copy of the game, so we were kind of guessing as to what the first storyline might be like."They threw together concept art for characters who only might exist, and whipped up a tentative story around them. When Chris Avellone finally played Knights of the Old Republic he realised how terrible and out of kilter with BioWare's his story had been, and flung it into the bin. He also realised something else: this was going to be one hard act to follow.
"The moment I hit the planet Manaan and I was walking around in the sea-floor I almost threw the controller at the TV because the game was getting so f***ing awesome. And then when the storyline played out..." I imagine him mouthing a whistle. "Incredible kudos to those guys - I thought it was a great story, I thought the team had assembled all the right beats for what made a Star Wars game and," he adds, "they made me love Star Wars again."
But, also: "Wow, I'm screwed," he laughs, recalling his thoughts. "It's a rough act to follow! Like, I'm going to Garfunkle this up."
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Jedi Order recovered to some extent after the end of Jedi Civil War. This is apparent from revelations in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan.Sith Triumvirate struck some years after Jedi Civil War and successfully purged it.
ugh3
You mean, the book Karpyshan wrote? You're using the book that made the mistake to justify the mistake itself. Thats silly.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Jedi Order recovered to some extent after the end of Jedi Civil War. This is apparent from revelations in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan.Sith Triumvirate struck some years after Jedi Civil War and successfully purged it.
So they went from 100 Jedi to 10000 Jedi in a very short time... lol.
Plus it contradicts this:
"Only a handful of us remained after the Jedi Civil War, barely a hundred in number. Then even that hundred began to disappear, in places where the Force seemed blind."
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Haven't you check this link?http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-31-fear-is-the-path-to-the-dark-side
Did you bother reading your own link?
After finally getting to play KotOR they completely redid their own story.
"When Chris Avellone finally played Knights of the Old Republic he realised how terrible and out of kilter with BioWare's his story had been, and flung it into the bin. He also realised something else: this was going to be one hard act to follow."
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Obsidian didn't do its homework either when it developed KoTOR II. Why is Drew being singled out for ridicule?In-fact, I recommend you to check this out: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t585880.html
"Part of the fun with designing them," he adds, "was if you have these incredibly powerful Force users and they have their whole hidden domain out in the distant reaches of the galaxy, what would that Sith empire really look like at the hands of these things?
If they could shape entire planets or galaxies or nebulas, and they had all these slave races at their disposal, how cool would that be, to go into the heart of darkness and you're the lone Jedi and/or new version of the Sith confronting these guys? What would that be like? I thought that would be pretty epic." (Source for this information in the link)
Even Chris envisioned paragons of True Sith as "incredibly powerful Force-users." So it doesn't surprises me if Jedi Exile was outmatched by them.
From Drew's novel:-
Malak had been his right hand during the campaign against the Mandalorians. But Malak was dead; Revan would get no answers there. Yet there had been another—a powerful Jedi named Meetra Surik. Meetra had been among the first to join Revan’s cause, and she quickly proved herself to be a brilliant tactician and military leader.
Recognizing her potential, Revan had made her a general, giving her control over nearly half of the Republic and Jedi troops under his command. Meetra had been instrumental in defeating the Mandalorians, dealing them a devastating blow during the Battle of Malachor V … though at a cost nearly impossible to fathom.
More;
Led by a woman named Kreia, the rogue Jedi turned to the dark side teachings uncovered by Malak and Revan. Kreia took the name Darth Traya, and her followers called themselves the Sith after the long-lost species that had invaded the Republic a millennium before. They began a systemic purge of the galaxy, hunting down those who still held fast to the Jedi Code, killing them by the tens of thousands. Their relentless pursuit virtually wiped out the Order, and only those few who managed to flee or hide survived.
Had Revan returned to face this new threat, Bastila would have eagerly fought by his side. Together they might have been able to quell the uprising, ending it before the horrors of war enveloped the Republic and millions lost their lives. But she had heard nothing of her husband since he had set off with Canderous four years earlier.
Alone, she dared not challenge Darth Traya and her followers. Instead, she had focused on keeping her son alive. It had been the Exile—Meetra Surik—who had taken up the fight against the rogue Jedi. Three years after Revan's unsuccessful attempt to locate her, she had emerged on her own to oppose and eventually defeat Darth Traya. Like Revan before her, she became the savior of the galaxy. And also as with Revan, there were many who felt her recent actions could not atone for the sins of her past.
More;
She'd heard rumors that a Mandalorian had aided the Exile in her battle against Darth Traya.
More;
Meetra had been close enough to feel the shock wave; to survive it she had cut herself off from the Force, shielding her psyche against the horrors of what she had unleashed. Many years had passed before she regained her connection to the Force, but in the end, surviving the trauma of Malachor V had given her the strength to defeat Darth Traya and her followers.
So where exactly Drew went wrong?
Revan was also a uniquely powerful individual whom Traya had taught, and she said "we would be like children playing with toys when compared to the ancient masters of the past" or something like that. Yet, Reborn Revan destroys Nyriss. So, It is true, but to some extent only. Meetra is imo Scourge's equal in Revan, and he was a Pureblood Sith from Vitiate's 'True Sith' Empire. Not every Sith was as powerful as Traya said, only the most powerful of the Empire, which as it turns out, Nyriss was part of [being in the Dark Council].
It just really doesn't seem like Drew even played KotoR II. I mean, Meetra has some pretty crazy feats in that game, and for Drew it's like she never even did what she did and was nothing but a pushover. Traya was no pushover, and neither was Nihilus [no matter the circumstances of that fight], and neither can a pushover solo an entire Sith Academy amped by a planet Nexus so powerful in the dark side that just standing on its surface is difficult for any Jedi.