Originally posted by carver9
@Pillow...At Hulk at WWH levels was outperforming a skyfather. This was before he went WBH levels. When he went WB, he killed off beings without touching them that a skyfather had trouble containing.
lol, dem lies.
Though I suppose it depends on what version of WWH you're using.
Rulk one-punch KOed Uatu, KILLED an Elder [Grandmaster] and was easily killing OdinForce Thor (and would have killed him, but for PIS).
I think, given that track record, the "breaking Surfer's neck" thing is hardly worth calling Carver up on.
"WWH", was always holding back and if we're limiting Hulk to not using any more power than he did during the arc (upto beating Sentry, but before getting a little pissed off and going "World Breaker"😉, then I can see Superman standing a chance. A slim one, but a chance nonetheless.
The problem though, is that Hulk during WWH was shown - on-panel and more than once - healing from having his torso and chest (along with, it must be presumed, his vital internal organs) completely ripped out by ZomStrange.
The fact that he healed up in a panel and that he only got stronger as he got frustrated, kind of makes Superman's potential offensive efficacy somewhat suspect.
I'd say "WWH" would win 7-8/10 against this Superman.
As for "WBH" ... Superman would have a better time being DP'd by Wonder Woman wearing a kryptonite strap-on and using The Sword of Omens to make the other hole.
WBH would win in a horrendous spite.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman always holds back too. It doesn't mean I get to just assume he'd go punching through heralds casually if he stopped doing it (which he has done).
The arcs that came afterwards went into a little depth about the scale of that power he restrains.
It's quite a bit different from, say Thor holding back or even regular Superman.
Originally posted by janus77
Who is assuming any such thing?
Also, the entire WWH arc was about how much restraint Hulk shows in battle. How he could have killed everyone but never would.The arcs that came afterwards went into a little depth about the scale of that power he restrains.
It's quite a bit different from, say Thor holding back or even regular Superman.
You could say the same thing about Superman in many of his arcs, so I really don't see how it applies.
We go by showings, not potential or by including how powerful a character became later. Doing so would be against the entire point of debating.
Though I really don't see how Superman would only have a "slim" chance against that Hulk either, tbh.
OWAW Superman stopped holding back, used his superior speed ans strength to the best of his abilities and had a pretty calm and calculating mind. WWH or WBH, it doesn't matter. If OWAW Superman was able to oneshot Team-Buster Probes (Herald or Trans) left and right, even though he struggled against a single one before it, means he was on another level.
Sure WBH would also do well against a Probe or even some. He would also be able to tank Superman onslaught for some "time" but he wouldn't be able to do anything at all. Superman with his speed would phase through each attack and Hulk would be just a statue to him. He showed he can hurt beings superior to heralds, so he would hurt Hulk for sure. It's not about IF WWH or WBH would go down but WHEN.
He is simply outmatched, too slow. OWAW Superman is like an Forum Superman.
I just think Sentry operates above Herald levels as well when "not holding back" and they used everything in their container and still couldn't stop Hulk. Under Pak, Sentry was a World Breaker as well and was on the verge of destroying Earth if Hulk didn't stop him.
What can stop WWh? I honestly dont know. Everything was tried from strength, to speed, to prep, etc...and none of it worked. Hell, Ironman used one of his most offensive armors against this version of Hulk (minus the nano tech)...his armor was amplified to the point that their punches was destroying cities from a distance...shedding mountains, etc... and it still wasn't enough. Zom amped off of a god and it still wasn't enough (even though he had a temporary advantage).
Everyone gave their all, teams, gave their all, they just couldn't knock the guy out. If any Herald can give this version of Hulk a fight, its Superman or Thor but his damage soak and strength will prevail. Pak said his intention was to prove that nothing short of Galactus could stop this Hulk (WWH) and imo he did a good job proving this.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
OWAW Superman stopped holding back, used his superior speed ans strength to the best of his abilities and had a pretty calm and calculating mind. WWH or WBH, it doesn't matter. If OWAW Superman was able to oneshot Team-Buster Probes (Herald or Trans) left and right, even though he struggled against a single one before it, means he was on another level.
Sure WBH would also do well against a Probe or even some. He would also be able to tank Superman onslaught for some "time" but he wouldn't be able to do anything at all. Superman with his speed would phase through each attack and Hulk would be just a statue to him. He showed he can hurt beings superior to heralds, so he would hurt Hulk for sure. It's not about IF WWH or WBH would go down but WHEN.
He is simply outmatched, too slow. OWAW Superman is like an Forum Superman.
Correction, WWH would do good against Probes because honestly, he would just like Doomsday, Superman, Thor, Captain Marvel, and Beta Ray Bill would as well.
Hulk wouldn't be a statue to him. Just because the probes was too slow to hit Superman doesn't mean this would apply to Hulk.
Originally posted by carver9
Correction, WWH would do good against Probes because honestly, he would just like Doomsday, Superman, Thor, Captain Marvel, and Beta Ray Bill would as well.Hulk wouldn't be a statue to him. Just because the probes was too slow to hit Superman doesn't mean this would apply to Hulk.
Against one maybe. They were Team Busters after all.
Superman is so much faster then Hulk it isn't even funny. Or do you honestly think that Hulk has a prayer of a chance to tag an OWAW mindest Superman? Since when has Hulk FTL speed?
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Against one maybe. They were Team Busters after all.Superman is so much faster then Hulk it isn't even funny. Or do you honestly think that Hulk has a prayer of a chance to tag an OWAW mindest Superman? Since when has Hulk FTL speed?
Thats your opinion. If Doomsday can take out some probes, I dont see an issue with Hulk doing the same since he does have similar fts.
Never said Superman wasn't faster than Hulk but honestly, we dont know how fast current Hulk is. The guy has outsped time stop, blitz fing fang before he could blink, moved so fast it appeared time stopped around him...blitzed beings that was moving so fast that they were completely invisible. Current Hylk is a speedster, his limits hasn't been established yet.
When did Superman fight at light speed in OWAW?
Originally posted by -Pr-
You could say the same thing about Superman in many of his arcs, so I really don't see how it applies.We go by showings, not potential or by including how powerful a character became later. Doing so would be against the entire point of debating.
Though I really don't see how Superman would only have a "slim" chance against that Hulk either, tbh.
WWH was Hulk at his most angry, yet holding back. It was a specific point of the story that he was not the monster that they (his "friends"😉 feared him to be.
I don't think Superman holds back any more than your regular herald type character, no "hero" goes out to murder their opponent just like that. Rarely is it built into the plot of the story, brought out in the denouement and then further developed in proceeding arcs.
WWH demonstrated Hulk's durability and regenerative capabilities (though Savage Hulk has feats topping the torso-feat). As Hulk amps, ALL his stats amp, so "WWH" would have an even more powerful HF than the one shown during his fight with ZomStrange. That's assuming there is any call for operating at that level, given ZomStrange was pretty much Strange's most powerful demonic source.
As for the "slim chance", I say this because Hulk is limited to not exceeding "WWH" story feats. So Sentry's all out performance and the brutality of ZomStrange would be the kind of references for this fight.
Superman is out to kill and will go all out, Hulk isn't allowed to go all out. So even though WWH is more powerful than any herald, even while holding back, he can still be overwhelmed if you think OWAW Superman can reach levels substantially in-excess of ZomStrange (to overload him - which is speculation as nothing did overload Hulk, during WWH).
Originally posted by carver9
Thats your opinion. If Doomsday can take out some probes, I dont see an issue with Hulk doing the same since he does have similar fts.Never said Superman wasn't faster than Hulk but honestly, we dont know how fast current Hulk is. The guy has outsped time stop, blitz fing fang before he could blink, moved so fast it appeared time stopped around him...blitzed beings that was moving so fast that they were completely invisible. Current Hylk is a speedster, his limits hasn't been established yet.
When did Superman fight at light speed in OWAW?
DD had his claws and he was evolved. DD himself was a Team Buster already and beyond Hulk.
So you are saying that Hulk is now close to Superman in speed? Really?
Reread it 😉.
Originally posted by carver9
Thats your opinion. If Doomsday can take out some probes, I dont see an issue with Hulk doing the same since he does have similar fts.Never said Superman wasn't faster than Hulk but honestly, we dont know how fast current Hulk is. The guy has outsped time stop, blitz fing fang before he could blink, moved so fast it appeared time stopped around him...blitzed beings that was moving so fast that they were completely invisible. Current Hylk is a speedster, his limits hasn't been established yet.
When did Superman fight at light speed in OWAW?
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
DD had his claws and he was evolved. DD himself was a Team Buster already and beyond Hulk.So you are saying that Hulk is now close to Superman in speed? Really?
Reread it 😉.
Savage Hulk was a team buster, constantly put The Avengers on their arses (including Thor).
"WWH" is Green Scar but with forum-induced limits. Those limits exist for a good reason. Without them, he wrecks the planet and anyone on it, within seconds. He's that powerful.
"WWH" feats show enough to dismiss your nonsensical assertions about Hulk.
Originally posted by janus77
LOL,Savage Hulk was a team buster, constantly put The Avengers on their arses (including Thor).
"WWH" is Green Scar but with forum-induced limits. Those limits exist for a good reason. Without them, he wrecks the planet and anyone on it, within seconds. He's that powerful.
"WWH" feats show enough to dismiss your nonsensical assertions about Hulk.
LOL
Giant WBH amped by the missiles from FFF mouth and Giant Betty didn't do any damage to Earth at all. Earth won't be destryoed by anyone here, it's too damn durable.
IP feats show enough to put them on HH-Trans level at least.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
DD had his claws and he was evolved. DD himself was a Team Buster already and beyond Hulk.So you are saying that Hulk is now close to Superman in speed? Really?
Reread it 😉.
UUUUMMMM, Hulk isn't the same as he was 15 yrs ago either. Especially going by his fts. If we are looking at evolution then Hulk has Doomsday beat.
LOL... WWH took out two beings that was a thousand times more powerful than Savage Hulk. He also punched them along with a large chunk of the city out of space. This doesn't include him taking out Rulk who was going all out and absorbing Hulk energy and using it to create punching that was creating nuclear explosions. WWH is a monster...this isn't even including WBH.
Never said he has Superman speed but what I am saying is, its very hard, VERY DIFFICULT seeing Hulk get blitzed right now.
Show me.