Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Malak, during his prime, was siphoning energies from several Jedi captives on the Star Forge to fuel his power. Prior to this, he had bested the trio of Revan, Bastilla and Carth on leviathan.
That's Malak with Star Forge plot-induced boss mode, not base Malak. We don't know if Malak buffed is sustainable like how the SI steals ghosts or if it is a temporary burst and expended upon use. Therefore, arguing buffed Malak is like arguing Hestizo Trace in the zone or bota-high Barriss Offee.
Carth is a non-factor in a fight against a Sith Lord, and Bastila's showings aside from her Battle Meditation are woefully low. She was captured by swoop gangs because her lightsaber got stuck, ffs.
We also have no idea how powerful Revan was at the time of the Leviathan, but it is clear he does not have his old memories at this point. Drew K. explicitly said that the fight against Malak when buffed was "epic", meaning that Revan got better in the interim. Otherwise, how could he be overcome by Malak's Force use on the Leviathan and then beat the same guy with buffs later?
Spoiler:
Land mines.
- Nyriss have one of the best showings in combat in the mythos. Both Scourge and Meetra were powerful Force-users and also master swordsmen. Scourge, in particular, have plenty of notable speed feats in the novel.
No, the best showing in the mythos is Heztiso Trace, who has a burst of speed that is virtually unparalleled. A whipid bounty hunter who previously moved so fast he was a blur to a Force user looked like a statue before her in action. But it was a one-time "Force moment" that is unreplicated, and I wouldn't argue it as consistent.
Nyriss' lightning is uber impressive, and her thrashing of Malak and Meetra is nothing to sneeze at. But I don't see Revan easily defending against a speed-blitz by Plagueis, who is every bit as dangerous and perhaps moreso.
Plagueis benefits from decent documentation in versus debates but I am not sure if he have superior combat prowess then lets say Malak and Nyriss. Plagueis have beaten Venamis and?
I understand the limitation of documentation issue. It's the reason why people assume Kun can't defeat anyone from the movies in some cases. But what we have here is a clear argument for raw power and speed, and that argument is in Plaguies' favor. Revan has not demonstrated this same level, although his Force use may be comparable.
Scourge is canonically a master swordsman,
So is Plaguies, Ulic, Kun, Mace, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda. They aren't all identical in prowess, and rarely stack up neatly against each other or others.
and of such proportions that even his instructors were unwilling to duel him at the time of his graduation. Meetra was also a very impressive duelist as apparent from her performance against the Imperial Guard of the Sith Emperor. In-fact, Meetra have history with extremely dangerous Sith Lords.
Drew's treatment of Meetra was heinous, but as she's presented canonically I have no choice but to conclude that she is farther from Revan's level of power than TSL suggests, and Scourge was still a mere apprentice at the time of the novel, so his respective power level is relatively weak too.
Sidious made Maul and Savage his bitches. But he struggled against Yoda. The former situation does not invalidate his latter difficulty.
As far as Revan is concerned, he had never been disarmed by any opponent in a lightsaber duel.
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Not every opponent "disarms". Also, if you want to be pretentious about it, Malak "disarms" Revan when he Force whirlwinds him and Force freezes him onboard Leviathan. This point is moot.
Not even by the mighty Imperial Strike Team which confronted him during TOR era.
Which could potentially consist of five snipers of unknown quantity.
Logically and apparently, he is extremely fast. He just lacks decent documentation to complement his abilities.
Given his Force connection, we can assume Revan is very fast. But we can't prove where he is faster than Plaguies. That's the whole debate.
Defeating a Sith Lord is considered to be a remarkable feat for any Jedi within the Jedi Order itself. This is not an easy task for even a Jedi of Yoda's caliber.
This might mean something if all Sith Lords were equal. They are not. Also, Obi-Wan knocked Maul on his ass, cut his saber in half, and then bisected him. Obi-Wan is a fly on Yoda's ass in direct combat. This doesn't hold any water.
Revan's performance against Nyriss safely puts him among the most powerful and talented Force-users of the mythos;
It is impressive, but it is not the best feat evah. There's plenty of stuff better. Hell, Ragnos' walking stick outperforms Revan's highest feat, capable of draining entire planets and blowing up temples. DE Luke tanks AT-AT fire and TK crushes one of them.
among the very best. Nyriss is already in the high end range.
Says you.
Revan is extremely effective in combat situations not just because of his raw power but his "out of the norm" Force mastery complements his already significant raw power. This is why Meetra believed him to be superior to any opponent she has met and she have faced very impressive opposition.
And Meetra's opinion of her former leader and one who inspires dying loyalty (Even Malak admitted as much) is not definitive. Nihilus could eat an entire planet of Force users; I'd be lying if I said Revan could overcome him.
Also, I am not sure what is the issue with Revan's speed? He could hurl heavy objects towards his targets at moment's notice, move his blade so fast that it would seem like a shield,
Barriss Offee as a padawan danced on Anson for the natives and twirled her saber so fast it appeared as a solid disk of light. This doesn't prove anything.
and physically outmaneuver swings from even highly skilled opponents in mid-fight situations.
Elaborate. Or this means nothing.
Revan had the reflexes to keep up with anything he encountered. Heck, he was naturally gifted in the use of precognition.
So was little Anakin in TPM, who was an excellent pod racer thanks to precog and reflexes.
My intended point is that one has to be on caliber of Sidious and Vitiate to keep Revan under check.
Then you misrepresented yourself by presenting it as an absolute.