Majestic VS The WORTHY'S Thing and Hulk

Originally posted by zopzop
Surfer was doing his usual 'let's talk this out routine' and was in no way bloodlusted or going in for the kill. So I don't get what the Surfer/Thor fight proves.

A wounded Thor humiliated these two clowns. Yet he couldn't put down the Surfer, who was more interested in talking than fighting.

/yawn

I've heard this more then once but it's not true. I think it's due to his facial expressions. He always looks like he's about to cry in that arc.

But yea, Surfer at different points became extremely pissed (Not that it did him any good) and cut loose about as much as he ever has (Outside of some CBR like black hole in the brain but then Thor's not throwing around God Blasts either). This was confirmed by Surfer later on in the arc when Ulik was retconned:

Fraction was just really shit at writing fights unfortunately. It was just board behind the back, hammer throw, head butt, rinse and repeat. Also:

Made me lol.

Also, nice reply. Definitely countered all my points. /concession accepted

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I've heard this more then once but it's not true. I think it's due to his facial expressions. He always looks like he's about to cry in that arc.

But yea, Surfer at different points became extremely pissed (Not that it did him any good) and cut loose about as much as he ever has (Outside of some CBR like black hole in the brain but then Thor's not throwing around God Blasts either). This was confirmed by Surfer later on in the arc when Ulik was retconned:

Also:

Made me lol.

Originally posted by zopzop
Surfer was doing his usual 'let's talk this out routine' and was in no way bloodlusted or going in for the kill. So I don't get what the Surfer/Thor fight proves.

A wounded Thor humiliated these two clowns. Yet he couldn't put down the Surfer, who was more interested in talking than fighting.

/yawn

Where was it stated Surfer was holding back? Surfer was trying to put Thor down.

Show me the humiliation.

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4844/thorvshulkandthing.jpg
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4452/thorvshulkandthing2.jpg
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4580/thorvshulkandthing3.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2695/thorvshulkandthing4.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4769/thorvshulkandthing5b.jpg
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8383/thorvshulkandthing6.jpg
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/6373/thorvshulkandthing7.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1622/thorvshulkandthing8.jpg

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
lol at some point when you read both sides, you realize that speed/strength is a deadly combo.

👆

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, he was so pissed he kept tell Thor to "wait" and "it pains me to do this". Sounds like he was straight up bloodlusted! That heathen. 🙄

Thor worked Surfer...while heavily wound and after a sneak attack from Surfer.

Originally posted by carver9
Where was it stated Surfer was holding back? Surfer was trying to put Thor down.

Show me the humiliation.

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4844/thorvshulkandthing.jpg
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4452/thorvshulkandthing2.jpg
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4580/thorvshulkandthing3.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2695/thorvshulkandthing4.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4769/thorvshulkandthing5b.jpg
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8383/thorvshulkandthing6.jpg
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/6373/thorvshulkandthing7.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1622/thorvshulkandthing8.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Thor worked Surfer...while heavily wound and after a sneak attack from Surfer.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I've heard this more then once but it's not true. I think it's due to his facial expressions. He always looks like he's about to cry in that arc.

But yea, Surfer at different points became extremely pissed (Not that it did him any good) and cut loose about as much as he ever has (Outside of some CBR like black hole in the brain but then Thor's not throwing around God Blasts either). This was confirmed by Surfer later on in the arc when Ulik was retconned:

Thor being a douche, answered Surfer's kindness with a hammer toss, and Surfer get's annoyed once again at Thor being an ass. Not sure why you're trying to pass this off as Surfer cutting loose.

Thor had the intent to kill (as stated by Thor himself), and Surfer didn't, quite the opposite in fact.

(Not that it did him any good)

Funny 'cause none of Thor's attacks did any lasting damage to Surfer at all. Despite the fact that he was going for the kill. Not surprising though, post-annihilation Surfer is powerful.

Originally posted by zopzop
You don't see Thor insta killing Worthy Ben and flash KOing Worthy Hulk all the while being wounded? Even if you don't believe that Worthy Hulk was flash KOed, Thor BFRed his ass and Hulk was unable to return in time (that counts as a forum win for Thor). Those boys were out for blood and Thor schooled them. Two vs a wounded One. Now let's compare that to this \/

While Surfer was trying to talk sense into him. Surfer withstood direct Mjolnir strikes with no visible damage, stopped Thor's swing mid-strike (forcing Thor to headbutt him), casually deflected a Mjolnir strike with a shield, etc....

I see him insta killing Thing...Mjlonir would have done the same thing to Majestic, especially the way Thor did it.

As soon as Nul was bfred, he redirected his path back to Earth. Look at the way Thor bfred him...the guy went Super Saiyan and then passed out afterwards. I've never seen Thor exert so much energy to get rid of/defeat an opponent. By the way, Majestic isn't Thor...Thor is far more powerful.

Lol...that's what Surfer does, he talks while he is in combat. That still doesn't take away from the fact that Thor was schooling him AFTER a sneak attack WHILE tanking everything Surfer threw at him. Lol, then Thor headbutted Surfer caving his head in.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Not really. Facial expressions mean something. Artists use them to convey a character's emotion. This is something you can't dismiss. Clearly Surfer's facial expressions (and what he actually said) very explicitly show Surfer's reluctance to fight. There is no getting around this fact.

Facial expressions do matter, I'm not saying otherwise. But then a character outright pointing out his mentality in the encounter means a lot more.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Cut loose? In what way did Surfer cut loose? The only time he showed anger was when Thor threatened to kill him on mars despite Surfer trying to talk Thor down. Even then, Surfer quickly did a 180 and showed "kindness" to Thor (as per Thor's own words), right after blasting him.

Thor being a douche, answered Surfer's kindness with a hammer toss, and Surfer get's annoyed once again at Thor being an ass. Not sure why you're trying to pass this off as Surfer cutting loose.

Thor had the intent to kill (as stated by Thor himself), and Surfer didn't, quite the opposite in fact.

I'd say Surfer cut loose whenever he got upset during the different points. Whether that meant a board to the back or an energy blast to the face doesn't really make much difference. It's stupid as I believe the fight can be a lot more epic but Fraction's idea of Odin's finishing blow was a headbutt so whatever.

Without re-reading the fight, Surfer was pushed over the edge during their first encounter on Earth after the headbutt, after Thor rammed Galactus and he screamed then rammed him, when he blasted him, and after Thor responded to Surfer's "kindness". Not an insignificant amount, especially since the fights were brief as they were.

I'm not denying that Surfer showed more compassion but at certain points both had more then enough.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Funny 'cause none of Thor's attacks did any lasting damage to Surfer at all. Despite the fact that he was going for the kill. Not surprising though, post-annihilation Surfer is powerful.

Okay? Did I argue Thor left Surfer brutally crippled or something?

I'm not saying Surfer's not powerful or anything. That being said, I'd very strongly argue that Thor came off as more impressive in direct combat.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, he was so pissed he kept tell Thor to "wait" and "it pains me to do this". Sounds like he was straight up bloodlusted! That heathen. 🙄

I don't understand why Surfer being a lot more pacifistic at different points doesn't mean he wasn't pissed at others? When you poke him, he gets mad.

Personally, I wish Surfer could have been drooling at the mouth with rage. Unfortunately, as shown in the Defenders, Fraction's Surfer was extremely detached (Maybe a bit too much) and wouldn't start cracking his knuckles in anger. Although it wouldn't have changed the fight any. If you think otherwise, well, I recommend giving the rest of Fraction's run a read through for perspective.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Facial expressions do matter, I'm not saying otherwise. But then a character outright pointing out his mentality in the encounter means a lot more.

Yeah, except that wasn't his mentality for the entire fight though. Not even 1/4th of the fight or fights. Trying to pretend it was is misleading. Like I said, he showed anger at the very end of the fight, and very briefly. But even then, Surfer being annoyed at Thor's douchiness =/= bloodlust, which Thor had on. Bloodlust is far more extreme than mere anger at someone being a douche.

I'd say Surfer cut loose whenever he got upset during the different points. Whether that meant a board to the back or an energy blast to the face doesn't really make much difference. It's stupid as I believe the fight can be a lot more epic but Fraction's idea of Odin's finishing blow was a headbutt so whatever.

Without re-reading the fight, Surfer was pushed over the edge during their first encounter on Earth after the headbutt, after Thor rammed Galactus and he screamed then rammed him, when he blasted him, and after responded to Surfer's "kindness".

I'm not denying that Surfer showed more compassion but at certain points both had more then enough.[quote]
Surfer's compassion was a sea compared to Thor's dessert. Same with his patience as well. Thor was blood lusted from the beginning, Surfer wasn't ever bloodlusted, which makes a big difference.

[quote]Okay? Did I argue Thor left Surfer brutally crippled or something?

I'm not saying Surfer's not powerful or anything. That being said, I'd very strongly argue that Thor came off as more impressive in direct combat.

When is Surfer ever bloodlusted though? Do we discredit every fight he is in because he isn't mad enough?

Originally posted by carver9
When is Surfer ever bloodlusted though? Do we discredit every fight he is in because he isn't mad enough?

No you don't discount fights, but when one character explicitly shows reluctance to fight, and the other is full of rage and bloodlust, you can't ignore it. You absolutely have to take that into account.

Originally posted by vince_slice
When he nearly one-shot killed Super Skrull, and evolved an entire planet's population billions of years in seconds, and then proceeded to incinerate the entire planet.

No you don't discount fights, but when one character explicitly shows reluctance to fight, and the other is full of rage and bloodlust, you can't ignore it. You absolutely have to take that into account.

Which is rare. Ninety percent of the time, Surfer is a pacifist.

Surfer blitzed Thor into a planet at super speed. That isn't a sign of showing "you don't want to fight". He blasted him as well. Surfer was on the offense just as much as Thor imo.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Yeah, except that wasn't his mentality for the entire fight though. Not even 1/4th of the fight or fights. Trying to pretend it was is misleading. Like I said, he showed anger at the very end of the fight, and very briefly. But even then, Surfer being annoyed at Thor's douchiness =/= bloodlust, which Thor had on. Bloodlust is far more extreme than mere anger at someone being a douche.

All he did was blast him and ask if Thor was done being a dick. Again, right after he did this, he showed KINDNESS to Thor. How on Earth is this cutting loose? When you cut loose you don't show concern and kindness to your opponent...

lol pushed ove the edge. He sure was pissed at Thor with that sad face of his, and his pleading of Thor not to fight.

No, I'm just pointing out despite Thor's rage and bloodlust, none of his attacks did any lasting damage against Surfer at all. Even his initial head butt looked like it damaged him more so than Surfer. Not surprising because Fraction's Surfer was beyond physical form.

Again, Surfer having an almost bipolar switch between compassion and anger under Fraction does not mean that he can't be pissed. If he goes from angry to worried, that doesn't mean he was only pretending to be angry or something.

I posted the scans. Fraction's thoughts on Surfer's mindset was very clear. Thor pushed him over the edge, beyond reason, he was enraged etc. That's all there is to it.

You could argue that Surfer wasn't blasting Thor with the specific intent to put him down or wasn't trying to best to take him out of the fight with his board attacks because he looked sad and pretend what was said was a lie.

You've obviously read Fraction's Defenders, no? So his writing of a detached Surfer should be extremely clear to you. As a matter of fact, those scenes with Thor are the most emotion, particularly anger, that he's ever shown under his pen as far as I can remember.

Anyways, feel free to disagree, but with the information you have on hand I honestly think it's ridiculous to think that fight under Fraction would have gone any different if Surfer was grimacing through it more often.

Fraction's Thor was also not written as the conventional norm. He was always coming across pissed. His default was angry but he didn't fight every battle doing his best to kill an opponent right away.

Originally posted by vince_slice
And I'd very strongly argue against it, taking into account the context of their mentalities, and what actually happened.

Whatever you say.

Originally posted by carver9
Which is rare. Ninety percent of the time, Surfer is a pacifist.

Surfer blitzed Thor into a planet at super speed. That isn't a sign of showing "you don't want to fight". He blasted him as well. Surfer was on the offense just as much as Thor imo.

I think there seems to be some disconnect. For example, this imo is an example of Fraction's Surfer being pissed and angry:

He looks pretty calm. Then you read the dialogue and he's basically telling Thor to f*ck off with his little hammer or he'd get stomped.

Now, I understand the importance of looking at facial expressions but you should not discount common sense and all other information in favor of this.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Again, Surfer having an almost bipolar switch between compassion and anger under Fraction does not mean that he can't be pissed. If he goes from angry to worried, that doesn't mean he was only pretending to be angry or something.

I never said he can't be pissed or wasn't pissed. I stated he was angry, but very briefly in the fight. Re-read my post. I also stated that Surfer being briefly angry pales in comparison to Thor's bloodlust, which was on from the very begining of the fight.

I posted the scans. Fraction's thoughts on Surfer's mindset was very clear. Thor pushed him over the edge, beyond reason, he was enraged etc. That's all there is to it.

You could argue that Surfer wasn't blasting Thor with the specific intent to put him down or wasn't trying to best to take him out of the fight with his board attacks because he looked sad and pretend what was said was a lie.

You've obviously read Fraction's Defenders, no? So his writing of a detached Surfer should be extremely clear to you. As a matter of fact, those scenes with Thor are the most emotion, particularly anger, that he's ever shown under his pen as far as I can remember.

Anyways, feel free to disagree, but with the information you have on hand I honestly think it's ridiculous to think that fight under Fraction would have gone any different if Surfer was grimacing through it more often.

Fraction's Thor was also not written as the conventional norm. He was always coming across pissed. His default was angry but he didn't fight every battle doing his best to kill an opponent right away.

Originally posted by vince_slice

I'm not saying it would go differently. Just trying to keep things in perspective.

As long as you understand this, then the rest is just semantics.

Some people pretend if Surfer was screaming in anger more often, he'd have won or something. I think that's silly. Especially since when he was explicitly pushed over the edge....absolutely nothing changed and he never gained any advantage.

None of their attacks had lasting damage (Not even the headbutt or a pissed Surfer blasting Thor in the face) but imho, Thor came off as at least as powerful as Surfer in combat.

Originally posted by vince_slice

Fraction's Thor was also more brutal, more aggressive, and had killed more often. I'm pretty sure it's linked to him being pissed all the time.

Like I said, Fraction's Thor default was Viking warrior like the days of old. As a result, Thor telling someone he'd rip their spine out isn't the oh shit, things are going to get out of control now, sign that it usually is. Of course, Fraction's Thor was on average crazy powerful so ultimately, I guess it doesn't make any difference lol.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think there seems to be some disconnect. For example, this imo is an example of Fraction's Surfer being pissed and angry:

He looks pretty calm. Then you read the dialogue and he's basically telling Thor to f*ck off with his little hammer or he'd get stomped.

Now, I understand the importance of looking at facial expressions but you should not discount common sense and all other information in favor of this.

That's just a classic Surfer monologue.

He looks calm because he is calm. You can tell people to f*ck off eloquently without being pissed off or angry.

THIS is Surfer being pissed (both in terms of facial expression and words):

Originally posted by vince_slice
You think this is Surfer being pissed? 😂

That's just a classic Surfer monologue.

He looks calm because he is calm. You can tell people to f*ck off eloquently without being pissed off or angry.

THIS is Surfer being pissed (both in terms of facial expression and words):

Based on what I've seen from Fraction? I'd argue yes. Why do you find that funny? You've also read his take on Surfer. It's not conventional, but that doesn't make it any less canon.

I also think this scene (After Thor rams into Galactus) is his equivalent of screaming in rage:

But....he looks like he's crying.

That is the most clear cut moment of him being angry. Although using past instances as references, it's his equivalent of Warrior Madness. 😂