Top 10 Jedi/Sith

Started by NewGuy013 pages

Going to put this in tiers. My list is based purely off of combat abilities. I am not going to be including Darth Nihilus or Darth Sion for reasons I will explain later.

Sith:

Tier 1:

-Darth Sidious
-Darth Plagueis
-Darth Bane (Orbalisk)

Tier 2:

-Darth Caedus
-Lord Vitiate
-Darth Vader
-Lord Exar Kun
-Darth Tenebrous
-Darth Krayt
-Darth Malgus
-Darth Tyranus

Tier 3:

-Darth Nox (Should he be tier 2? I might just move him)
-Darth Bane
-Darth Maul
-Lord Karness Muur
-Darth Traya
-Lord Freedon Nadd

I'll to Jedi later.

Originally posted by Q99
Quite arguable (as evidenced by the last Malgus/Krayt thread).

In the same thread, no counterargument have been provided that can establish that Krayt is a match for Malgus.

Do I think Malgus is more powerful? TBH, yes I do. Do I think Krayt can give him a very good fight, as he would almost any sith? Yes.

Originally posted by XRKun
Marek is technically more of a jedi than Luke. He's had more jedi training.

Really? Marek became a Grand Master of the Jedi Order?

Originally posted by XRKun
I think Dooku would do reasonably well in sabers against Luke. I mean he was the greatest Makashi practicioner to ever live, he outfenced up to 4 duelists at one point, and gave Yoda a very good fight.

Luke (prime) would utterly destroy Count Dooku in single combat. Dooku benefitted from passivity of Yoda, Luke wouldn't be so kind.

Also, what confirms that Dooku is the greatest practitioner of Form II to ever live? Even if he is, he can still loose to experts of other Forms if he doesn't have advantage in Force Mastery aspects.

Originally posted by XRKun
Plus he was able to block a LOT of Zonakin's strikes before being disarmed and beheaded. And Zonakin is arguably the better saber duelist than Luke.

Luke is stronger than Yoda. Luke's fairly inconsistent, but when he's on a good day, he's incredible.


This whole "zonakin" thing is blown out of proportion.

Originally posted by XRKun
Dooku is better than Caedus. I'm sorry. Dooku has an amazing track record. Caedus doesn't.

I think that you have no idea how powerful Luke became after the battle of endor.

Originally posted by XRKun
Kao Cen Darach for this list? LOL

He have demonstrated more skill and power then majority of the Jedi in the mythos in just one footage.

Originally posted by XRKun
Jacen Solo is a Sith

Jacen Solo wasn't a Jedi?

Originally posted by XRKun
Gimme some feats for Kaedan and Aryn, because all the former can do is resist the Dread Master's influence and the latter just has Force Empathy.

Jaric Kaedan is among the elites of the Jedi Order. Learn more about him from here: http://www.torhead.com/codex/1TMLD1N/master-jaric-kaedan

Also, you think that capture of Dread Masters is not a big deal? 🙄 (This is among the best feats in the mythos)

As far as Aryn Leener is concerned, she put up a very good fight against Malgus which is remarkable display of power and skill. Leener have killed two Sith Lords before without much issue (Neph can offer useful information in this regard). She is among the Jedi's finest.

Originally posted by XRKun
Dunno much about Braga either.

Braga is among the most powerful Jedi of the Order. He once fought a Dark Council member for 3 days and converted him to light.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Going to put this in tiers. My list is based purely off of combat abilities. I am not going to be including Darth Nihilus or Darth Sion for reasons I will explain later.

Sith:

Tier 1:

-Darth Sidious
-Darth Plagueis
-Darth Bane (Orbalisk)

Tier 2:

-Darth Caedus
-Lord Vitiate
-Darth Vader
-Lord Exar Kun
-Darth Tenebrous
-Darth Krayt
-Darth Malgus
-Darth Tyranus

Tier 3:

-Darth Nox (Should he be tier 2? I might just move him)
-Darth Bane
-Darth Maul
-Lord Karness Muur
-Darth Traya
-Lord Freedon Nadd

I'll to Jedi later.


This is better approach to rank Force-users but I am surprised by your sheer level of underestimation of Vitiate.

Vitiate would have punked the Jedi Strike Team - which put up a good fight against (Orbalisk) Bane - without much issue. In-fact, Vitiate would have eaten (Orbalisk) Bane alive without much issue. Vitiate have exterminated entire Councils of powerful Sith Lords with his powers.

I have told you before that you shouldn't rank Bane so high. Also, Plagueis isn't TIER 1 material either.

Jacen Solo wasn't a Jedi?

He was, but he was strongest as a Sith.

As a Jedi, there were multiple of the time on a level with him, I'd say.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In the same thread, no counterargument have been provided that can establish that Krayt is a match for Malgus.

The thread had a lot of argument in it, after all, with lots of examples posted on both sides. You *disagreeing* with the examples doesn't mean people didn't have them, and it's disingenuous to say otherwise.

People provided examples of Krayt fighting foes with higher TK feats, of Krayt's impressive dueling record, his arsenal of powers, force knowledge both gleened from knowledge accumulated from past eras and new techniques pioneered by him.

Myself aside, Nephthys posted a lot of counter-arguments.

You may feel that TOR era people are inherently stronger, but I don't think that's how the actual feats posted in the thread balanced out, and whatever your opinion of the outcome arguments for Krayt existed in spades.

Krayt is a match for Malgus imo.

Originally posted by Q99
The thread had a lot of argument in it, after all, with lots of examples posted on both sides. You *disagreeing* with the examples doesn't mean people didn't have them, and it's disingenuous to say otherwise.

People provided examples of Krayt fighting foes with higher TK feats, of Krayt's impressive dueling record, his arsenal of powers, force knowledge both gleened from knowledge accumulated from past eras and new techniques pioneered by him.

Myself aside, Nephthys posted a lot of counter-arguments.

You may feel that TOR era people are inherently stronger, but I don't think that's how the actual feats posted in the thread balanced out, and whatever your opinion of the outcome arguments for Krayt existed in spades.


Much of that thread is about "this and that" and nothing in it establishes that Krayt is a match for Darth Malgus. I admit that I got caught up in the whole "quality of Sith" debate in that thread and the comparative analysis got overshadowed in this manner.

If you are so sure of Krayt's supremacy then create another thread about Krayt and list down all of his feats in it. I will rip apart all of your arguments in this comparative analysis, I assure you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt is a match for Malgus imo.

He isn't.

Also, expect my response to one of your arguments in the referred thread soon.

Only Sith!!

1.Marka Ragnos
2.Naga Sadow
3.Ludo Kressh
4.Freedon Nadd
5.Lord Vitiate
6.Darth Nihilus
7.Darth Traya
8.Darth Bane
9.Darth Sion
10.Darth Revan
11.Darth Zannah
12.Darth Malak
13.Exar Kun
14.Simus
15.Darth Malgus


14.Simus

You put a head in a jar on your list...?

Originally posted by S W Legend
Much of that thread is about "this and that" and nothing in it establishes that Krayt is a match for Darth Malgus.

I quite disagree, and I could easily say the same thing about your arguments for Malgus.

Asserting the other side is less is not the same as proving it.


If you are so sure of Krayt's supremacy then create another thread about Krayt and list down all of his feats in it. I will rip apart all of your arguments in this comparative analysis, I assure you.

The old thread is still there, and if you failed to rip them apart last time, why would next time be any different?

Disagreeing is not the same as ripping apart. Malgus does not have the TK feats of some Legacy era characters that Krayt's fought. Krayt has very good saber feats. Etc. etc..

I think the two of them would be a pretty good fight, but the Malgus superiority you claim is something that, whether or not you believe Malgus to be true, is absurd to claim there aren't opposing arguments to. You weigh your arguments more heavily, fine, but don't pretend the Krayt arguments aren't there.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is better approach to rank Force-users but I am surprised by your sheer level of underestimation of Vitiate.

Vitiate would have punked the Jedi Strike Team - which put up a good fight against (Orbalisk) Bane - without much issue. In-fact, Vitiate would have eaten (Orbalisk) Bane alive without much issue. Vitiate have exterminated entire Councils of powerful Sith Lords with his powers.

I have told you before that you shouldn't rank Bane so high. Also, Plagueis isn't TIER 1 material either. [/B]

I've played around with Vitiate's ranking for a long time now, and my decision of his combat ranking isn't really unsupported.

He punked the Jedi Strike team through the use of Force Storm. The Force Storm is an AoE power--An entire radius is attacked with the same level of power. Tol Bragga alone would have lasted no shorter against Vitiate's FLS than with the strike team with him. My verdict on this is that a FLS can be stopped by a singular opponent of high power much more efficiently than a group of mediocre Jedi Knights. The number of opponents becomes meaningless before Force Storm. This is also my explanation as to how the Hero of Tython in Act 3 was able to defeat Vitiate and not get crushed by the Force Storm like he did in Act 2, even though he had 3 Jedi Masters with him. And I rest my case by saying that someone like Orbalisk Bane or Darth Caedus could likely stop it.

RoT Darth Bane is so high because he has Force Feats that are on par with Vitiate's non-ritualistic Force Feats, and yet has far superior lightsaber and speed showings. I'm doubtless that RoT Bane is superior to the Hero of Tython.

Plagueis himself is extremely powerful. He's atomized armored Maladian Assassins with Force Waves, incinerated people with Force Lightning, was fast enough to appear like he was a streak of lightning, was too fast for a droid that could track blaster bolts to see, and has the skill feat of defeated Venamis while largely disadvantaged. On top of this he can stun his organs and use midichlorian manipulation to survive fatal injuries and continue on fighting. It is my personal belief that he is in fact tier 1 material.

Originally posted by Ragnosfan1998
Only Sith!!

1.Marka Ragnos
2.Naga Sadow
3.Ludo Kressh
4.Freedon Nadd
5.Lord Vitiate
6.Darth Nihilus
7.Darth Traya
8.Darth Bane
9.Darth Sion
10.Darth Revan
11.Darth Zannah
12.Darth Malak
13.Exar Kun
14.Simus
15.Darth Malgus

Bane, Vitiate, Kun, and Nihilus would MAUL Ragnos, Nadd, Traya, Sion, Revan, Malak, Sadow, and Kressh.

Originally posted by Q99
I quite disagree, and I could easily say the same thing about your arguments for Malgus.

Asserting the other side is less is not the same as proving it.


Malgus have:

1. more impressive combat record.
2. been recognized as one of the most powerful dark side practitioners in history by (mighty) Sidious.
3. can summon powers that make him seemingly unstoppable.
4. more impressive feats.

While Krayt have some impressive talents and feats as well, he isn't as good as you suggest him to be. Krayt's esoteric capabilities make him dangerous like he can recover from seemingly death like situations until his body is destroyed but this isn't beneficial capability in lets say a versus scenario.

Originally posted by Q99
The old thread is still there, and if you failed to rip them apart last time, why would next time be any different?

Disagreeing is not the same as ripping apart. Malgus does not have the TK feats of some Legacy era characters that Krayt's fought. Krayt has very good saber feats. Etc. etc..


Really?

Fans have history of going out of their way to vouch for their favorites in versus debates. This doesn't makes their position credible just like yours often is (not) in debates featuring Krayt.

Malgus haven't collapsed buildings either but he destroyed an individual who did. How does this analogy sounds to you? Or you would continue to harp around supposed supremacy of your favorites without merit?

Originally posted by Q99
I think the two of them would be a pretty good fight, but the Malgus superiority you claim is something that, whether or not you believe Malgus to be true, is absurd to claim there aren't opposing arguments to. You weigh your arguments more heavily, fine, but don't pretend the Krayt arguments aren't there.

Well, Krayt may put up a decent fight against Malgus but would be eventually outmatched.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I've played around with Vitiate's ranking for a long time now, and my decision of his combat ranking isn't really unsupported.

And you haven't figured out yet that how powerful and dominating he is.

Maybe you need to check this thread to improve your knowledge: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t587136.html

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He punked the Jedi Strike team through the use of Force Storm. The Force Storm is an AoE power--An entire radius is attacked with the same level of power. Tol Bragga alone would have lasted no shorter against Vitiate's FLS than with the strike team with him.

I admit, this is an excellent point. However, see below.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
My verdict on this is that a FLS can be stopped by a singular opponent of high power much more efficiently than a group of mediocre Jedi Knights.

I disagree with this assessment.

The Jedi Strike Team which Vitiate defeated was an extremely capable one, featuring some of the Order's most powerful and proven Jedi.

You should give credit to Vitiate for possessing the capability to prevent an entire Strike Team (of aforementioned caliber) to advance and gain on him. Vitiate actually disarmed that entire Strike Team with his powers, which I don't think is possible for majority of Force-users in the mythos. Even Sidious haven't demonstrated this level of capability, outside his FS (W) talent.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The number of opponents becomes meaningless before Force Storm. This is also my explanation as to how the Hero of Tython in Act 3 was able to defeat Vitiate and not get crushed by the Force Storm like he did in Act 2, even though he had 3 Jedi Masters with him. And I rest my case by saying that someone like Orbalisk Bane or Darth Caedus could likely stop it.

Vitiate was not in the position to maximize his powers during his second clash with HoT because he was interrupted from the most ambitious ritual - to have been ever attempted - and this seemingly backfired on him.

And no, Bane and Caedus do not stand a chance against Vitiate. Vitiate would utterly destroy either one with his powers or even both put together.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
RoT Darth Bane is so high because he has Force Feats that are on par with Vitiate's non-ritualistic Force Feats, and yet has far superior lightsaber and speed showings. I'm doubtless that RoT Bane is superior to the Hero of Tython.

You are mistaken:

Vitiate is so powerful and well-versed in the ways of the Force that he doesn't needs a lightsaber to defeat or punk potential adversaries. He have felled expert swordsmen without difficulty.

As far as Force feats are concerned:-

- At the age of 10, Vitiate punked the most powerful Sith Lord of his homeworld by severing his connection with the Force (a dark variant of Sever Force talent) and destroying his mind with his telepathic abilities.

- Vitiate acquired absolute mastery of telepathic abilities; he could instill fear, mentally dominate, produce illusions/apparitions, possess and even destroy the minds of his targets. He went as far as to create "alternate dark personas" of thousands of other Force-users, triggering them from time to time to serve him (Children).

- Vitiate acquired absolute mastery of Force Drain talent; he could consume life-forces of other beings from even light-year distances. He siphoned energies of countless individuals to fuel his power.

- Vitiate acquired absolute mastery of unleashing (offensive) energies in purest forms of the dark side; he unleashed an FLS of this caliber on Revan (This FLS would have eaten Revan alive, if T3-M4 had not stopped Vitiate on time). He could also unleash Force blasts of purest dark side energies with bare hands.

- Vitiate acquired absolute mastery of telekinetic applications; he could perform telekinetic actions without gestures (nearly atomized T3-M4; prevented Scourge from striking Revan with his lightsaber; collapsed structures). Furthermore, he could conjure up Force waves, break bones, shatter organs and even atomize biota with his telekinetic abilities.

- Vitiate once destroyed an entire Dark Council with a mysterious application; this application swiftly killed/incapacitated all Dark Council members simultaneously.

- Vitiate acquired highest degree of immortality; could shift his essence from body to body (Essence Transfer) and permanently prolonged the existence of his original body, preventing its decay and destruction (Midichlorian manipulation). Vitiate was close to acquiring omnipotence when he was stopped.

I am sure that Vitiate acquired lot of other talents; he even altered the atmosphere and environment of Dromund Kaas on planetary scale.

---

And no! Bane isn't as good as Hero of Tython is.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Plagueis himself is extremely powerful. He's atomized armored Maladian Assassins with Force Waves,

Correction: all but atomized.

Vitiate can actually atomize biota, evident from what he did to T3-M4 (an heavily customized droid).

Originally posted by NewGuy01
incinerated people with Force Lightning,

Vitiate's servants could do this. He (himself) can utterly destroy even the most powerful individuals with his Force lightning, he is this damn potent.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
was fast enough to appear like he was a streak of lightning,

Gifted Force-users are known to react and move lightning fast.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
was too fast for a droid that could track blaster bolts to see, and has the skill feat of defeated Venamis while largely disadvantaged.

Droids have excellent tracking capabilities in the mythos but they cannot react so fast. Venamis isn't such a big deal.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
On top of this he can stun his organs and use midichlorian manipulation to survive fatal injuries and continue on fighting. It is my personal belief that he is in fact tier 1 material.

Don't get me wrong, I admire Plagueis and regard him as one of the most powerful Sith Lords in the mythos. However, I don't think that he is in the league of Vitiate.

Top Ten Sith:
1. Darth Sidious- ROTS and above
2. Darth Plagueis "Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived. But could he be the only one who never died?"
3. Vitiate
4. Nihilus
5. Exar Kun
6. Darth Malgus/Darth Tyranus/ Darth Krayt
9. Darth Bane
10. Darth Caedus

Jedi:
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Yoda
3. Anakin Skywalker (Yeah I said it. He's got the accolades to back them as well)
4. Mace Windu
5. Barsen'thor
6. Revan
7. Galen Marek
8. Jedi Dooku
9. Nomi Sunrider
10. Satele Shan

Someone needs to make a Plagueis and a Dooku respect thread, because they are the characters that sorely need it.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Top Ten Sith:
1. Darth Sidious- ROTS and above
2. Darth Plagueis "Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived. But could he be the only one who never died?"
3. Vitiate
4. Nihilus
5. Exar Kun
6. Darth Malgus/Darth Tyranus/ Darth Krayt
9. Darth Bane
10. Darth Caedus

Jedi:
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Yoda
3. Anakin Skywalker (Yeah I said it. He's got the accolades to back them as well)
4. Mace Windu
5. Barsen'thor
6. Revan
7. Galen Marek
8. Jedi Dooku
9. Nomi Sunrider
10. Satele Shan

Someone needs to make a Plagueis and a Dooku respect thread, because they are the characters that sorely need it.

IMO (because of Neph's consistenty strong arguments though somewhat biased) Bane is more powerful than Kun. And IMO, Marek is destructive as heck. He would beat Revan IMO. And Sunrider and Shan were more powerful in the Force than Jedi Dooku (Jedi Dooku was considerably weaker than Sith Dooku anyway).

Someone needs to make a Plagueis respect thread, because he is the character that sorely needs it.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/darth-plagueismagister-hego-damask-respect-thread/83363/

Thanks XRKun. Yeah, I'm really not sure why you're putting Anakin above Windu, Revan, the Barsen'thor and Marek, Mizu. All of them are more powerful than he is (in actual ability). And indeed, as far as I know Jedi Dooku is a virtual unknown.

I'm assuming he is based on this little guy:

"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace. He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it."
-Revenge of the Sith Novel

...and the thousands (Yes, atleast thousands) of other accolades Anakin has got over the years.

As someone said, that novel is 90% hyperbole and 20% grandiose statements. Plus:

-He is the most powerful Jedi of his generation, which doesn't say much when his biggest rival in that regard is... Kenobi? A generation is only about 20 years.
-He is the most powerful Jedi of any generation depending on what we're talking about. Mizu still puts Yoda above him, so I doubt he's taking that quote literally.
-As above, all those other things don't put him above the rest on the list.
-As I recall that statement is from Anakins own perspective.

Well then still hate to burst your bubble, but since Anakin seems to be in every Clone Wars novel in existence, which is in total like hundreds of books, and that in each book he gets load of accolades, I can understand his reasoning.

Like I don't put Anakin that high, but to be fair even as a slave on Tatooine he is getting accolades of this measure: "Anakin’s mother, Shmi, confirmed in her own words what Qui-Gon had already suspected—the boy was immeasurably strong in the Force."