Black Adam VS Terrax: TO THE DEATH!

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
Black Adam gets stomped. He is officially dc's weakest herald. He has been demoted to low-herald/high-meta now.

Officially? Nah, but his fans have -mostly- never cared much for what he actually does. He only has his brutality and statements about him being on par with Superman.

Somehow when there are statements about WW and Martian Manhunter people never rep those characters, but they rep Adam because "he's cool". Wonder Woman and J'onn have feats of power that put Adam (and Captain Marvel) into shame, but don't go around telling that to the Marvel Family fans.

At least this is my experience from years of frequenting this forums, maybe someone will finally prove me wrong? I want to rep Billy, I like the character, but I'm not going to ignore every other character and use bias to tip battles in his favor.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You don't know them at all then. Alan would spank his ass and J'onn would too.

Of course he did. She healed back but she did it after being stabbed by spear of destiny too.

Very serious.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/11-1.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/12-1.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/03.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/04.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/05.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/06.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/11.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/12.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/13.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/14.jpg

See for yourself.

So? She still KTFO him. He wasn't weakened or something.

http://i.imgur.com/FgZwIjz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jasX4KR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CR5UsKW.jpg

If Superman was possessed/mind controlled/body snatched, he was aware he was compromised, he wanted to lose so badly that he even wanted to be put down, and he was actively fighting the effect of the possession/mind control/body snatching. Then he gets beaten by a character, let's call her Character X, CLEARLY below him power wise while in this state. Would you count this is a legitimate loss for Superman?

Terrax beating Alan? Yeah, right. Adam wins this.

Originally posted by Bentley
Officially? Nah, but his fans have -mostly- never cared much for what he actually does. He only has his brutality and statements about him being on par with Superman.

Somehow when there are statements about WW and Martian Manhunter people never rep those characters, but they rep Adam because "he's cool". Wonder Woman and J'onn have feats of power that put Adam (and Captain Marvel) into shame, but don't go around telling that to the Marvel Family fans.

At least this is my experience from years of frequenting this forums, maybe someone will finally prove me wrong? I want to rep Billy, I like the character, but I'm not going to ignore every other character and use bias to tip battles in his favor.

WW/MM are equal to Superman when they aren't fighting him, Billy/Adam is equal to Superman when they are fighting him.

If it wasn't for a lot of logic leaps, they would be equal to him at all times. But that's not all right for Superman fans, so they aren't. Though I really don't see the big deal with this anyway, it's not like it degrades Superman like a WW/MM comparison would... meh.

Anyway, lol at Terrax beating Post Crisis Adam. I don't care about NuDC Adam, but Post would tear Terrax in half.

👆

[edit]
Has anyone aside from Firestorm ever beaten Adam with energy blasts or whatnot..?

Originally posted by zopzop

I know who they are and I stand by my statement. Terrax would break them.

So he didn't really beat Eclipso at all.

And how serious was the JSA about winning that fight? Context.

You realize Terrax WANTED to die right and was actively fighting against the microbes or whatever it was the AWave injected him with? [/B]

But I find it funny how you defend Terrax's losses as PIS, yet you turn around and call Black Adam's wins PIS. I guess we could use this logic for Adam if he actually had as many lows as Terrax though...

She was done for the time being.

Also this:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Black%20Adam/BlackAdam08.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Black%20Adam/BlackAdam09.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Black%20Adam/BlackAdam10.jpg

Adam runs through him

Originally posted by Galan007
👆

[edit]
Has anyone aside from Firestorm ever beaten Adam with energy blasts or whatnot..?

Though the Firestorm one is quite low (or it just shows the amp he got from the Matrix at the time)... it's still not as bad as half of Terrax's stuff.

He did take a beating from Onimar Synn though and kept coming back for more.

Originally posted by Bentley
Officially? Nah, but his fans have -mostly- never cared much for what he actually does. He only has his brutality and statements about him being on par with Superman.

Somehow when there are statements about WW and Martian Manhunter people never rep those characters, but they rep Adam because "he's cool". Wonder Woman and J'onn have feats of power that put Adam (and Captain Marvel) into shame, but don't go around telling that to the Marvel Family fans.

At least this is my experience from years of frequenting this forums, maybe someone will finally prove me wrong? I want to rep Billy, I like the character, but I'm not going to ignore every other character and use bias to tip battles in his favor.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Not really. Shazam I guess. Spectre too, but that had to do more with messing with his energy.

Though the Firestorm one is quite low (or it just shows the amp he got from the Matrix at the time)... it's still not as bad as half of Terrax's stuff.

He did take a beating from Onimar Synn though and kept coming back for more.

I wouldn't call it a low showing, really. That was the same series that began touting FS as a universal power, and had him thrashing an amped Kalibak and Orion. Terrax can't do any of that.

That alone should be enough to deduce that Terrax isn't winning. Onimar>>>Terrax.

Originally posted by Galan007
Shazam doesn't really matter/apply imo, because a.) Billy is basically the antithesis of Adam, and b.) Terrax ain't magic. Same with Spectre(the fact the he is an aspect of GOD notwithstanding.)

I wouldn't call it a low showing, really. That was the same series that began touting FS as a universal power, and had him thrashing an amped Kalibak and Orion. Terrax can't do any of that.

That alone should be enough to deduce that Terrax isn't winning. Onimar>>>Terrax.

Meh, he did receive a big jolt from the Matrix at the time. Still...

He also beat Billy with Shazam's power...

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
They don't have any feats that put them to shame, and the difference is Adam/Billy don't have instances where Superman shit stomps the person they got shit stomped by. And Superman hasn't shown raw superiority to Billy/Adam like he has to Wonder Woman.

WW/MM are equal to Superman when they aren't fighting him, Billy/Adam is equal to Superman when they are fighting him.

That pretty much only proves that MM/WW fight Kal more often, he's scored conclusive defeats against them because they have more history with him. Going by the logic you propose Adam/Billy have less shameful encounters with Kal than Darkseid.

I'm in no way saying Adam/Billy aren't around Kal level, but people putting them above MM/WW and others is -imo- uncalled.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
If it wasn't for a lot of logic leaps, they would be equal to him at all times. But that's not all right for Superman fans, so they aren't. Though I really don't see the big deal with this anyway, it's not like it degrades Superman like a WW/MM comparison would... meh.

Again this guys get to share Superman status exactly... How? By beating conclusively powerful heralds such as Wonder Woman? Maybe Darkseid?

I understand the argument you're applying here, it is sensible to consider that "Superman clones" are meant to be "Superman level", after all, that's the concept behind their powersets for most part. But the duo doesn't really have that many outstanding matchups against other powerhouses. Kal in the other hand is a proved powerhouse buster.

I'm ready to be swayed in my -unfair?- conception of these characters, but I find the proof I've seen rather underwhelming. I don't think the comparision is degrading as much as I think it's unaccurate and assigns power to the duo that they haven't displayed.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Anyway, lol at Terrax beating Post Crisis Adam. I don't care about NuDC Adam, but Post would tear Terrax in half.

In my first post I mirrored the tired argument that people use to give BA the win over Superman.

People are kind of lowballing Terrax -he's one of the few underrated jobbers in the forums-, but I fully understand when people say he's crushed. He has some sad showings Under his belt.

👆

Originally posted by mighty adam
CM have crazy feats are you smoking wet? Cm fought specter, one shotted supes, stupid wild durability feats like being turned inside out etc. BA ww3 nuff said, a universal catastrophe implanted inside his head couldn't kill him. Bitching the dcu for decades. Btw people with knowledge do respect MM and WW. Mm has feats that put him above BA. WW not fully geared gets cum dumped on her face tho.

CM was boosted against the Specter (unless we're talking fo a different feat. The durability feat you mention is awesome, but it's more of a powerset thing than an actual feat of power. One-shotting Kal is ok, that's a feat I can get behind.

BA in WW3 is less of an impressive showing than people make it up to be, but I'm more than open to see it in a different perspective in the light of other feats.

Originally posted by Bentley
CM was boosted against the Specter (unless we're talking fo a different feat. The durability feat you mention is awesome, but it's more of a powerset thing than an actual feat of power. One-shotting Kal is ok, that's a feat I can get behind.

BA in WW3 is less of an impressive showing than people make it up to be, but I'm more than open to see it in a different perspective in the light of other feats.

Originally posted by Bentley
That pretty much only proves that MM/WW fight Kal more often, he's scored conclusive defeats against them because they have more history with him. Going by the logic you propose Adam/Billy have less shameful encounters with Kal than Darkseid.

I'm in no way saying Adam/Billy aren't around Kal level, but people putting them above MM/WW and others is -imo- uncalled.

But I'm going by the logic that they either aren't completely overpowered by Superman, and Superman doesn't beat the Christ out of beings who shit stomp them.
Wonder Woman admittedly does good against Superman, but that's not because she's equal to him in power, it's because of certain skills and weapons. MM is just an embarrassment.

Considering Captain Marvel beat ****ing Wonder Woman, Flash, MM and others at the same time... I'd say it's pretty called for. And considering who Adam has beaten at the same time, yeah, called for.

Originally posted by Bentley
Again this guys get to share Superman status exactly... How? By beating conclusively powerful heralds such as Wonder Woman? Maybe Darkseid?

I understand the argument you're applying here, it is sensible to consider that "Superman clones" are meant to be "Superman level", after all, that's the concept behind their powersets for most part. But the duo doesn't really have that many outstanding matchups against other powerhouses. Kal in the other hand is a proved powerhouse buster.

I'm ready to be swayed in my -unfair?- conception of these characters, but I find the proof I've seen rather underwhelming. I don't think the comparision is degrading as much as I think it's unaccurate and assigns power to the duo that they haven't displayed.

I don't care at all about Superman clones though. I'm using feats. Fact is there's no real consistent "Superman clone" (super speed, super strength, ice breath, hv, etc) on his real level. The only Superman peers who do good against him in raw strength are Orion, Black Adam, and Billy. Out of them, Orion is the only one who has the "Superman save me" feats, but he does make up for it.

And both Billy and Adam are powerhouse busters. Scans have been posted of him beating the JSA while he was sharing power with Billy and Mary. Which included Power Girl who is pretty much an equal in strength to Wonder Woman (as per their fights). Of him effortlessly snapping Eclipso's neck. Of him running through Spectre.
You want scans of WW3 Adam fighting like 30 heroes at the same time, and one punching Martian Manhunter in that time? You want scans of him ripping Amazo's head off while he had a GL, and Wonder Woman's power at the time (he also took out Firestorm, albeit a cheap shot) in that incarnation? Of him beating up the JSA a couple more times? Billy beating Flash, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter at the same time? Of Billy on his own taking a crazy amount of punishment against Spectre?

Or does he need some sort of feat where he walks through Thunderbolt's powers being unleashed through Johnny Thunder and then kills him with a spear?

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Billy/36-16.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Billy/36-17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Billy/36-18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Billy/36-19.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Billy/36-20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Billy/36-21.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Billy/36-22.jpg

Among others.

I get that Superman fans like to say they're below Superman just so Superman beats him, but for everyone else who acts like they're just so far below Superman that they might as well be Martian Manhunter? I don't get that. They're just about the only real peers Superman actually has, and the sooner that gets realized, the sooner people stop seeing them have trouble with people like Terrax.

Originally posted by Bentley
In my first post I mirrored the tired argument that people use to give BA the win over Superman.

People are kind of lowballing Terrax -he's one of the few underrated jobbers in the forums-, but I fully understand when people say he's crushed. He has some sad showings Under his belt.

He might be underrated, but underrating Black Adam isn't any better.

Originally posted by Bentley
CM was boosted against the Specter (unless we're talking fo a different feat.

About around this hit he starts getting amped. Maybe after judging by him being damaged, and then taking a lot more blasts after this page and fighting Spectre on and off panel like half the comic until we finally find out he's being amped. Although all she was doing was feeding him power just enough to keep him alive before she actually started amping him with other sources. Stamina in other words.

The battle also happened off panel before we learn he's fighting Spectre too judging by his damage.

dcnu adam would make it close, i'd take terrax for a small majority perhaps. post-c adam would def take a very heavy majority over him, maybe 8-9/10. terrax has a couple showings that might suggest he could take 1 or 2, but that would be using his highest end feats while simultaneously forgetting about adam's high feats.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And both Billy and Adam are powerhouse busters.

So is Diana in her own way, but you don't seem too bothered to say her stats are sensibly different to Kal. I agree, but that's beside the point I guess, the upper levels of strength for Superman are proved and tested.

I do value the showings you posted and I certainly think they lend credence to their case. I'll look closely at Billy's feats, since they are actually pretty interesting it'll help to rebuild my stance on BA indirectly.

By supermans own words

Black Adam stronger than Martian Manhunter and Wonder woman. unless you can see then physically restraining superman like this ^^

Originally posted by Bentley
So is Diana in her own way, but you don't seem too bothered to say her stats are sensibly different to Kal. I agree, but that's beside the point I guess, the upper levels of strength for Superman are proved and tested.

I do value the showings you posted and I certainly think they lend credence to their case. I'll look closely at Billy's feats, since they are actually pretty interesting it'll help to rebuild my stance on BA indirectly.

Of course Superman is going to have better highs, that's just going to happen. And in the case of Billy/Adam, that's really all he has going for him to say he's stronger (or from some people, way stronger). In direct comparisons, they're relatively equal. In statements, they're relatively equal. And in terms of high feats, they can match a lot of the ridiculousness of some, though obviously not all.
All Martian Manhunter has going for him is statements. All Wonder Woman has going for her is direct comparisons (which again, is NOT due to her strength and durability), and the odd statement. It's really not the same at all.

I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but they are more Superman peers than any other characters in comics. And to your original statement, it is not only statements that put them at this level like it is for MM, and lesser for WW.