And they did kind of justify the "No limits" logic. Absorbing Imperiex's energies without any ill effects by itself is a pretty good example.
And for the Morrison feats, forget the infinity page lift. I'm actually much more impressed with him holding refined bleed in his mouth to save Lois, which only Monitors could make and is supposed to be impossible to contain ..
But "Superman can".
Okay, their main theme that they pushed to justify Superman beating Goku was "one can break any limits, the other has no limits" correct? And then they use an example of not holding Superman's losses against him just like Goku doesn't get the Raditz loss held against him. That. Is. Retarded. And my main issue with the death battle.
First off, they're right. Superman and the comic book elite like Thor and whatnot, operate on higher playing fields when it comes down to it, that doesn't mean they're limitless. Superman has at no point post-crisis, pre-new 52, had an exponential increase in power like Goku had from Saiyan Saga to current time. Because while there is a difference between DoS time Superman and the latest, the difference is minimal compared to Goku's difference.
By their logic, Superman can't really be beaten because he's as strong as he needs to be, even though he's been beaten plenty of times.
The thing is, they're clearly using an amalgamated mis-mash of characters. They did it for Goku, too, giving him movie feats. This kind of approach obviously favors Supes, because he has a much deeper history to pick from.
That, and they don't have any concept of "PIS/SvsFl" discarding of feats. You do it that way, and plenty of comic book character puts DBZ feats to shame. Even Spidey or T'challa.
Got to take Death Battle for what it is, which is just two guys giving their opinion after about two weeks of internet research. More or less the internet version of Deadliest Warrior.
And is also the opposite of the equally flawed Super Power Beatdown fan vote system. Either way, the videos are pretty fun. 🙂
My only problems with it were the implication that a character with no limits is inherently better than a character with limits. Superman wins because his feats are better, no more or less.
It was sorta the logic they pulled with Gaara vs Toph. Toph has a basically omniscient view of all the earth, sand, metal around her for miles on end whereas Gaara doesn't have that. So, logically, Toph would win even though Gaara is massively superior in every other category.
It also comes across as a sort of telling you how you should feel thing. If Goku destroyed a universe he would beat Supes(I guess, idk his feats) but that doesn't mean much in terms of how you'd feel towards the character, so long as he has rivals to his power. I also don't like being told I like Goku because he was made like Superman by the dub lol.
But they're trying to be respectful and both guys really do prefer Goku overall as a character. They're just being honest with the feats they have and it's more respectable for them to acknowledge the superiority of the stronger fighter. Still not sure if it needed 2 episodes though~
Originally posted by Damborgson
Okay, their main theme that they pushed to justify Superman beating Goku was "one can break any limits, the other has no limits" correct? And then they use an example of not holding Superman's losses against him just like Goku doesn't get the Raditz loss held against him. That. Is. Retarded. And my main issue with the death battle.First off, they're right. Superman and the comic book elite like Thor and whatnot, operate on higher playing fields when it comes down to it, that doesn't mean they're limitless. Superman has at no point post-crisis, pre-new 52, had an exponential increase in power like Goku had from Saiyan Saga to current time. Because while there is a difference between DoS time Superman and the latest, the difference is minimal compared to Goku's difference.
By their logic, Superman can't really be beaten because he's as strong as he needs to be, even though he's been beaten plenty of times.
Well the thing is they are taking Superman at his best and not at his average (which I do feel is the best way to do it) and a this best Superman is literally a walking plot device.
Goku was put down by a laser gun in Revival of F unfocused.
Now that would have been a tickle to Superman.
I think that is where the difference starts.
He has survived black holes, planets exploding. Goku had a nightmare with Namek exploding.
The fight might have been better with Superman vs Golden Freeza.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Goku was put down by a laser gun in Revival of F unfocused.Now that would have been a tickle to Superman.
I think that is where the difference starts.
He has survived black holes, planets exploding. Goku had a nightmare with Namek exploding.
The fight might have been better with Superman vs Golden Freeza.
They should have made Superman vs Golden Frieza, Whis and Beerus. 3 on 1.
Still think that it would have been nice to give the DB fans a win, kind of makes them hate Supes even more.
Nah, I don't have an issue with Superman winning--he's got the overall feats to back it up. It just seems like their logic was skewed from the start, and they hastily made this thing just to get the fans off their back. They just don't seem to have much of a grasp on DBZ power-scaling/multipliers in general, imo... I think the last Death Battle they did between Goku/Supes was a LOT better, and not nearly as biased.
Tbh, if those same guys ever make a Superman/Whis battle, I have no doubt that they'd still have Superman win... Cuz no limits. Meh.
Originally posted by Galan007
Nah, I don't have an issue with Superman winning--he's got the overall feats to back it up. It just seems like their logic was skewed from the start, and they hastily made this thing just to get the fans off their back. They just don't seem to have much of a grasp on DBZ power-scaling/multipliers in general, imo... I think the last Death Battle they did between Goku/Supes was a LOT better, and not nearly as biased.Tbh, if those same guys ever make a Superman/Whis battle, I have no doubt that they'd still have Superman win... Cuz no limits. Meh.
Whis does appear on have limits on his speed. Beerus was complaining on how fast they were flying though space, even though he is the fastest. Thing is IT is faster then Whis, so on that aspect Goku is faster then Superman with that one technique that they did not employ in this fight.
If anyone is interested in Superman's capabilities I came across this site. It highlights some of his better feats and debunks the ones that are usually taken out of context in versus forums.
Originally posted by Galan007
That's because Goku(and the Kaioshin) use teleportation, which allows them to travel anywhere in the universe, instantly.Whis, for whatever reason, cannot teleport, and uses raw flight speed to get from A to B... He's still massively FTL, though.
Yes I agree, also that feat that Beerus had in Episode 2 was faster then Whis, I dont get why he needs Whis to travel.
Originally posted by Astner
If anyone is interested in Superman's capabilities I came across this site. It highlights some of his better feats and debunks the ones that are usually taken out of context in versus forums.
Some of his debunked "opinions" smell more like butthurt.
Edit: Just a look at his Hulks Unlimited power and everything makes sense.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Some of his debunked "opinions" smell more like butthurt.
When you hide contexts, crop out panels and make up your own stories of what actually happened; that's when you know you need to reevaluate your life, preferably offline.