Deathbattle disagreements

Started by Prof. T.C McAbe38 pages

Originally posted by Astner
It's not opinion when you have scans readily available for people to examine.

When you hide contexts, crop out panels and make up your own stories of what actually happened; that's when you know you need to reevaluate your life, preferably offline.

I went through the scans of FC for example, I have the comic and it is just his opinion tbh. Because the feet itself is still flawless and the intention of Morrison obvious.

What do you mean? The only one who crops scans repeatedly is Mr. M to my knowledge.

Actually a funny read, this side Gladiator, Hulk and Superman. The way he argues i am 100% sure that this is Carvers personal homepage 😂

Originally posted by cdtm
"I can alter reality and nearly kill an omnipresent, omniscent cosmic being!"

"And I just learned an ancient Kryptonian martial art"

"Noooo!"

You can say this about a lot of comic book characters. This isn't debating this is bs. We go by what they can do. Superman needs the jla and has had his ass handed to him on more than a dozen occasions.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can say this about a lot of comic book characters. This isn't debating this is bs. We go by what they can do. Superman needs the jla and has had his ass handed to him on more than a dozen occasions.

You can say it about Logan, maybe. The PIS is strong with him.

Put it this way, in terms of raw feats, there's better.

But if you were a betting man, would you put your money on Thor vs any given team killer, or on the guy who usually charges in and saves the day after his team gets wiped out?

Originally posted by cdtm
You can say it about Logan, maybe. The PIS is strong with him.

Put it this way, in terms of raw feats, there's better.

But if you were a betting man, would you put your money on Thor vs any given team killer, or on the guy who usually charges in and saves the day after his team gets wiped out?

Thor would cave Superman's head in. Superman is overrated and his fans often take his feats out of context and outright lie.

Originally posted by cdtm
The thing is, they're clearly using an amalgamated mis-mash of characters. They did it for Goku, too, giving him movie feats. This kind of approach obviously favors Supes, because he has a much deeper history to pick from.

That, and they don't have any concept of "PIS/SvsFl" discarding of feats. You do it that way, and plenty of comic book character puts DBZ feats to shame. Even Spidey or T'challa.

Got to take Death Battle for what it is, which is just two guys giving their opinion after about two weeks of internet research. More or less the internet version of Deadliest Warrior.

And is also the opposite of the equally flawed Super Power Beatdown fan vote system. Either way, the videos are pretty fun. 🙂

Unfortunately their opinions will carry. You know there are some first time viewers and whatnot out there going "damn Superman's unbeatable! Infinite strength would you look at that!" Thousands of new Abhilegends running around.

Like I said, the issue isn't with Goku losing, just the way they went at it. I'm glad they do what they do, the animation was very good, and it still kicks the crap out of Batinthesun which is purely fan voted, at least these guys do some decent analysis for the most part.

It's really no different than two like minded people on this forum saying who would win. Even if they weren't overtly bias (which they are).

Except with video making capabilities. I don't see what the big deal is besides it being neat to see.

If I am to be honest, I (more often than not) get more entertainment out of the fights from Super Power Beatdown/batinthesun than I do death battle nowadays. Yeah, their system's equally flawed with the whole voting thing and all, but at least closely voted fights will have alternate endings and that kind of stuff.

The Darth Vader vs Batman one had insanely good production values..

Deadpool and Domino vs Joker and Harley was entertaining as hell too.

Comic vs finally comes to All Versus after All Versus has basically died. You all suck.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I went through the scans of FC for example, I have the comic and it is just his opinion tbh.

I just glossed over it, but the Final Crisis lifting feat was probably the weakest presentation as far as reasoning was concerned. But it did bring up some valid points like the book's weight was never specified.

But even so it did provide the proper context for the feat with no page-jumps—which allows people who haven't read the comic a chance catch up with what actually happened; and they even specify the comic, so even if you're skeptic towards the presentation you can easily look it up.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Because the feet itself is still flawless and the intention of Morrison obvious.

What intention?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
What do you mean? The only one who crops scans repeatedly is Mr. M to my knowledge.

I was talking specifically about what they did in the Deathbattle video; which they did in their original video as well. In the last one they said that Superman and Wonder Woman lifted the Spectre, but the comic actually specifies that the Spectre is too heavy for them and in the very next panel he crashes into the Earth; and the comic never specified that the Spectre's weight was infinite, or even close like they did video. And the original video had Superman, Martial Manhunter and Wonder Woman moving the Earth; while it was actually Kyle Rayner who moved it. Both of these feats are debunked on the site.

YouTube video

Originally posted by Placidity
I don't think they will ever have Goku win vs Superman.

This is because in DB, they never really show direct strength feats or striking power.

While it is explicit in their extreme increases in powerlevel, we don't ever get to see an impressive feat.

One can extrapolate their true strength by comparing current versions to a kid Goku or someone like Nappa (who was basically invulnerable against the human military), but not many people do that.

Energy projection on the other hand is definitely up there. I cannot see Superman shrugging off a planet destroying Kamehameha. But then again, Superman already did in their first death battle.

Called it to a T, spot on 👆

_

The black hole feat is well known for being misrepresented. The fact it had a force field (In the process of failing, but still up) around it never gets mentioned, for one..

I've seen a lot of people disagree with the Link vs. Cloud match. Here's one blog talking about the fight:

http://www.screwattack.com/news/death-battle-cloud-vs-link-more-screwattack-screwups

After reading this...I don't know if I can agree with ScrewAttack either.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I've seen a lot of people disagree with the Link vs. Cloud match. Here's one blog talking about the fight:

http://www.screwattack.com/news/death-battle-cloud-vs-link-more-screwattack-screwups

After reading this...I don't know if I can agree with ScrewAttack either.

That post is, uh, pretty horrible. Lol.

A few choice quotes.

he was given the powers his various incarnations had and whatever weaknesses that his character had in any installment is erased by the strength of some other one.
They specifically used OoT Link, lol. I guess they gave him the pegasus boots for some reason, though, which was weird.

Link is supposed to be a “master swordsman” according to Screwattack. In fact, he barely duels someone who is supposedly an amazing swords-master in any game, he usually fights unarmed monsters and occasionally just ordinary guards. We rarely see anything fancy by Link.

I'm not sure why fancy acrobatics translate directly to skill in the minds of most audience members, quoting this more as a pet peeve kind of thing.

Cloud is shown to be a swords-master of superhuman proportions – performing split-second midair maneuvers, making super high jumps that nearly give him the appearance of flying, and cutting whole buildings in half.

I'm not sure why he's talking about this as if it's particularly impressive, he seems to be under the impression that Link himself is not superhuman?

Since he inherited Zack’s skills, we know he can deflect machine-gun fire from multiple opponents and nothing will get through! That’s some truly amazing sword skills. Zack was even capable of slicing rockets in half just right, so they wouldn’t explode in his face, essentially disarming them. Cloud could do that against Link’s bombs maybe. If we take all of Cloud’s known abilities all the way up to the end of Advent Children (Complete), we need a good deal of what he is capable of.

And Link plays tennis with lightning, I mean, he's not even discussing feats of skill, it's a feat of speed. The most skilled fighter in the world would not be able to fight say, Quicksilver, even if Quicksilver were completely terrible at martial arts or fighting of any sort.

Both are super humanly fast.

One more bit of evidence they used to pass off their excuse of Cloud’s defeat is that the Master Sword is evil’s bane and it would home in on the evil of the Jenova cells within Cloud. This is more speculation, a theory. The Master Sword was always used to defeat a person that was evil (such as Ganon, yet it won’t even effect Twinrova) and even then, one swipe is nowhere near enough to take Ganon down
You don't need an evil's bane weapon to kill Cloud, any sword durable enough to pierce him would do fine. Besides which point the Master Sword is sentient, and has cut small continent from the Earth before, as well overcome the power of the Triforce, neither of which are evil. It can certainly harm non-evil beings by sheer power of being pointy should the need arise.

n Advent Children Complete Sephiroth practically butchered Cloud with his Octoslash after the attempted original Omni-slash that went horribly wrong. And even after getting shish-co-bobbed, he took Sephiroth down with a perfectly executed Omni-Slash Version 6. Meaning even several attacks in sensitive spots would not be enough to take him down with the Master Sword.
Sephiroth was toying with him, none of those wounds were meant to kill Cloud, Cloud does have advanced healing and durability, but if you cut his head off or stab him somewhere vital, he's disabled.

Now one of the big reasons they pick Link as the winner is the Golden Gauntlets – allowing Link to lift over 1000 tons. Now he just doesn’t pick it up like a toy, he takes time to lift it! And it only seems to work at times (perhaps they have limited power, etc.) but it seems obvious he can’t use that strength all the time… if he could swing his sword with strength like that, Ganon couldn’t survive more than one sword swipe.

haermm

I mean, it's not like Ganon's been hit so hard that the indirect force of the attack levelled a ****ing castle, right? Without a scratch to him, no less. This guy's reasoning is faulty, he just assumes Ganon is fragile, which is very much wrong.

This guy basically knows nothing about Zelda, and is not qualified to make the call due to that.

Originally posted by Astner
I just glossed over it, but the Final Crisis lifting feat was probably the weakest presentation as far as reasoning was concerned. But it did bring up some valid points like the book's weight was never specified.

But even so it did provide the proper context for the feat with no page-jumps—which allows people who haven't read the comic a chance catch up with what actually happened; and they even specify the comic, so even if you're skeptic towards the presentation you can easily look it up.

What intention?

I was talking specifically about what they did in the Deathbattle video; which they did in their original video as well. In the last one they said that Superman and Wonder Woman lifted the Spectre, but the comic actually specifies that the Spectre is too heavy for them and in the very next panel he crashes into the Earth; and the comic never specified that the Spectre's weight was infinite, or even close like they did video. And the original video had Superman, Martial Manhunter and Wonder Woman moving the Earth; while it was actually Kyle Rayner who moved it. Both of these feats are debunked on the site.


It was specified as "A book with an infinite number of pages occupying the same space", which is a spot on description. Every speculation to it not having an infinite number of pages is just that speculation. Morrision gave us the fact, it's not up to some wannabe on a personal page to "debunk" it with his bias tbh.
Even if the "every book possible" was taken out of context. We have to first think about earth, pre-cris, post-crisis, the infinite possiblities of each earth due to it's timeline, the differen't alternate Universes, an infinite number of earths, pre-cris and an infinite number of possible earths in the future. Even if it would work as wished by some wannabes, that it is like an ipod and that it contains the information, logic would even then suggest that each book needs something to be stored at and even if we take the lowest weight possible for the storage space, we have still an in-phucking-finity of books which would mean an infinite weight.

Morrisons intention was to have the ultimate force of good face the ultimate evil and having to face impossible tasks in order to beat it. Lifting an infinite weight, containing the uncontainable bleed etc. Good will always beat evil, good will always succeed, even if it's impossible to.

The hold him, they slowed him, they failed in this story line, but for a short time they resisted the infinite pull. The spectres weight was eternity and eternity is heavy, this implication is rather simple as eternity is everything that was, is and will ever be. The earth pull feat, way to go jumping from page 41 to page 45, I didn't read the comic but it makes me wonder, 4 pages of commercials or context left out? Anyway, since Superman benchpressed the weight of earth for 5 days without sunlight this is not even important.

Now to the guy who made the page. I try to see the bigger picture, the reason behind it. A Butthurt DB fan? Seems so but once you look at Hulks entry and Gladiators entry some character pattern becomes a rather big possibility. Someone wants his favorite hero to be the one with unlimited power/strength, the hulk, he tries to prove it by his "objective" view of things, accepting gladly each statement of Hulk having infinite strength, even if it is not back up by feats, while trying way too hard to dismiss Supermans infinite potential/strength even if it is back up by feats (that have to be debunked). It becomes even more obvious if you look at the debunked feat, a single one mind you, of Gladiator, which is only debunked to promote the Hulk and thus implying that he is also above Superman. The page is just about Marvel heroes the wannabe wants to be above Superman. Funny enough, this kind of reaction most likely comes from someone who lost all debates on a CBvForum and now tries to spill his, and his only, "truth" over a website where no one can "prove" him wrong. It's like: If I don't see it, If I don't hear it I will be always right. This site is from a rather pathetic individual imo who just ignores everything to be once in his life "right".

I still can laugh at it. ^^

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

I'm not sure why fancy acrobatics translate directly to skill in the minds of most audience members, quoting this more as a pet peeve kind of thing.

Fact: Original Trilogy duels between Vader/Obi Wan and Vader/Luke had better swordsmanship then the prequels. 👆

Originally posted by cdtm
Fact: Original Trilogy duels between Vader/Obi Wan and Vader/Luke had better swordsmanship then the prequels. 👆
I was recently shown a video which clearly showcased as much in a humourous fashion.

YouTube video

HAHAHAHAHA Lucas got PWND

Horrible Choreography.