Daredevil and Elektra vs. Luke Cage and Iron Fist

Originally posted by beatboks
I wouldn't write off team one here at all. Matt has stalemated and or defeated Danny every thine they have crossed. Cage only has impervious skin the organs below are just as susceptible to damage as those of anyone else. Considering that Matt has taken on and taken down Tombstone who is more durable in many ways than Cage while fighting someone else ( a swordsman IIRC).

I see no reason why DD can't take down Cage with pressure points and considering how much trouble DD has every time he fights Elektra she should be equally able to give Danny trouble.

Steel Serpent did better against Spidey then Matt ever has, though.

Even accounting for Spidey holding back, as he'd do against both, it's a point for Iron Fist.

Davos as of the Immortal City arc would stomp his older self and pre powerup Danny at the same time. And he was still nothing to current Danny.

Originally posted by cdtm
Steel Serpent did better against Spidey then Matt ever has, though.

Even accounting for Spidey holding back, as he'd do against both, it's a point for Iron Fist.

Davos as of the Immortal City arc would stomp his older self and pre powerup Danny at the same time. And he was still nothing to current Danny.

I made no mention of Spidey in the post you quoted. I mentioned fight Matt had with Danny and against a powered Tombstone. Lonnie gave Pete trouble BEFORE he had powers and Matt has take Him down since. Those powers are equal to Cage in strength and above in durability and Lonnie is a better more skilled combatant than Cage ( hence why he was a problem for Spidey as a normal human). Lonnie is faster than Cage and his durbility goes to a little more than just his skin.

Yes Danny has been upgraded with regards the IF but not in skill and in skill he has only ever been a match for Matt while Elektra has been Matt's superior. I could go through and bring up scans of Matt taking on Namor and causing him trouble, engaging the Avengers ( Cap, Herc, Giantman and Ironman ) and also giving them trouble when they were trying to bring somone into federal custody and deny his civil rights. Matt has taken on vastly more powerful and capable opponents and done well because he's smart and agile. Neither Cage or Danny have reaction feats to match Matt and there is no reason to assume he can't avoid them for as long as he needs he's managed to even evade the senses of BP and Logan when the need arose.

I'm not even saying team 1 wins just that it's closer than Many here are saying and arguments can be made for both sides

Danny 100/10

Just curious, how much strength do you guys think would be required for a thunderclap?

Originally posted by beatboks
I made no mention of Spidey in the post you quoted. I mentioned fight Matt had with Danny and against a powered Tombstone. Lonnie gave Pete trouble BEFORE he had powers and Matt has take Him down since. Those powers are equal to Cage in strength and above in durability and Lonnie is a better more skilled combatant than Cage ( hence why he was a problem for Spidey as a normal human). Lonnie is faster than Cage and his durbility goes to a little more than just his skin.

Yes Danny has been upgraded with regards the IF but not in skill and in skill he has only ever been a match for Matt while Elektra has been Matt's superior. I could go through and bring up scans of Matt taking on Namor and causing him trouble, engaging the Avengers ( Cap, Herc, Giantman and Ironman ) and also giving them trouble when they were trying to bring somone into federal custody and deny his civil rights. Matt has taken on vastly more powerful and capable opponents and done well because he's smart and agile. Neither Cage or Danny have reaction feats to match Matt and there is no reason to assume he can't avoid them for as long as he needs he's managed to even evade the senses of BP and Logan when the need arose.

I'm not even saying team 1 wins just that it's closer than Many here are saying and arguments can be made for both sides

matt has some GREAT feats, but any character can say the same and some of what you mentioned weren't really that great. he danced around namor for a while and frustrated him, he jumped around the avengers who never attacked him. he's done well agaisnt cap and spidey often enough though among many others. danny has his share of uber feats too though, and danny has at least 1 reaction/agility feat that surpasses anything dd has (dodging machine gun fire at close range and for a prolonged length of time--in his respect thread somewhere). elektra being superior to matt is also a bit misleading. at times it has gone that way, but other times matt has been clearly superior. his emotions often get in the way with her. she could barely match bullseye while matt has literally schooled him.

anyway, you're right in regards to relative skill though regarding danny and matt--i've always said they are near equals. danny does have a clear power edge though and he should beat dd for a solid majority based on that alone, though no fight would be easy imo.

cage WOULD be a problem for either dd or elektra though. could they take him? sure, not impossible, but not for a majority imo, at least not without some tp help from elektra. i'd say they could take 2, maybe 3/10, here, but i wouldn't give more than that.

edit.

Originally posted by leonidas
matt has some GREAT feats, but any character can say the same and some of what you mentioned weren't really that great. he danced around namor for a while and frustrated him, he jumped around the avengers who never attacked him. he's done well agaisnt cap and spidey often enough though among many others. danny has his share of uber feats too though, and danny has at least 1 reaction/agility feat that surpasses anything dd has (dodging machine gun fire at close range and for a prolonged length of time--in his respect thread somewhere). elektra being superior to matt is also a bit misleading. at times it has gone that way, but other times matt has been clearly superior. his emotions often get in the way with her. she could barely match bullseye while matt has literally schooled him.

anyway, you're right in regards to relative skill though regarding danny and matt--i've always said they are near equals. danny does have a clear power edge though and he should beat dd for a solid majority based on that alone, though no fight would be easy imo.

cage WOULD be a problem for either dd or elektra though. could they take him? sure, not impossible, but not for a majority imo, at least not without some tp help from elektra. i'd say they could take 2, maybe 3/10, here, but i wouldn't give more than that.

Originally posted by leonidas
matt has some GREAT feats, but any character can say the same and some of what you mentioned weren't really that great. he danced around namor for a while and frustrated him, he jumped around the avengers who never attacked him. he's done well agaisnt cap and spidey often enough though among many others. danny has his share of uber feats too though, and danny has at least 1 reaction/agility feat that surpasses anything dd has (dodging machine gun fire at close range and for a prolonged length of time--in his respect thread somewhere). elektra being superior to matt is also a bit misleading. at times it has gone that way, but other times matt has been clearly superior. his emotions often get in the way with her. she could barely match bullseye while matt has literally schooled him.

anyway, you're right in regards to relative skill though regarding danny and matt--i've always said they are near equals. danny does have a clear power edge though and he should beat dd for a solid majority based on that alone, though no fight would be easy imo.

cage WOULD be a problem for either dd or elektra though. could they take him? sure, not impossible, but not for a majority imo, at least not without some tp help from elektra. i'd say they could take 2, maybe 3/10, here, but i wouldn't give more than that.

I'd say more like 3 or 4. Where Namor is concerned he's faced him 4 or 5 times one ( in a harbor) was as you say dancing around him. Another he swung at Namor and took him Down briefly with pressure points. The Avengers thing he actually took down three of them ( granted solely with plot) IIRC a well placed baton throw deflected caps shield st it struck IM's boot rocket sending him into a spin and knocking Giantman into Herc. Matt was however only capable of the because I his senses. Danny has dodged machine gun fire for four panels ( by here gunmen- I'm one of the guys who uses that scan a lot) I have DD issues where he has dodged a room full of gunman for three pages. The two feats IMO just don't compare as well as you believe. As to comparing Electra vs Bullseye to Matt vs him Matt does well against bullseye because of his power not just his skill. His radar and other senses means his depth perception is far far greater. He can track the trajectory of bullseye's projectiles better than anyone else in marvel. Matt is his perfect opponent

Luke stomps Electra via Boxkicking. Did I mean to say Kickboxing?

No.

Tha hell was that?

Are her Sai's adamantium. If so she could just throw one through Lukes throat r real quick

Typical comic written by Bendis, there must be at least one WTF moment. That was a Skrull, btw (but Luke had no idea about it).

Elektra's regular sais pierced She-Rulk and blocked Class 10 strikes from SS (who might --- might --- have been using the indestructible Black Blade).

Spite

Rand wins

Originally posted by leonidas
matt has some GREAT feats, but any character can say the same and some of what you mentioned weren't really that great. he danced around namor for a while and frustrated him, he jumped around the avengers who never attacked him. he's done well agaisnt cap and spidey often enough though among many others. danny has his share of uber feats too though, and danny has at least 1 reaction/agility feat that surpasses anything dd has (dodging machine gun fire at close range and for a prolonged length of time--in his respect thread somewhere). elektra being superior to matt is also a bit misleading. at times it has gone that way, but other times matt has been clearly superior. his emotions often get in the way with her. she could barely match bullseye while matt has literally schooled him.

anyway, you're right in regards to relative skill though regarding danny and matt--i've always said they are near equals. danny does have a clear power edge though and he should beat dd for a solid majority based on that alone, though no fight would be easy imo.

cage WOULD be a problem for either dd or elektra though. could they take him? sure, not impossible, but not for a majority imo, at least not without some tp help from elektra. i'd say they could take 2, maybe 3/10, here, but i wouldn't give more than that.

Good post.

Matt is near the top of the martial arts food chain, and has the feats to prove it, so I'm comfortable with him and Danny being near equals in a pure skill sense.. Considering Matt called Danny as good a fighter as he's ever seen when he was impersonating him and copying his style, he'd have to be at LEAST Matt's equal.

His chi amped stats (With or without his Iron Fist, as he can use his internal chi) and Iron Fist tricks edge Danny out over him.

Originally posted by tkitna
Spite

Rand wins

Rand ftw