Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?

Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?

I have been asked to do an O P showing my beliefs and have written a nutshell view to fill that request.

I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.

This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.

This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.

Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?

I never met Jesus, so I would never say I knew him. I wish I could say that I have read his writing, but there are none. I've never met Buddha also, but I have read his writings.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
I have been asked to do an O P showing my beliefs and have written a nutshell view to fill that request.

I hope I didn't make that request, because I was just joking.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

If your library consists of only one book, then you cannot say you have a well rounded library. I say read the bible, then move on. There are many books like the bible, in the world. Read them all.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.

I think you are being too general.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

Why not see Jesus as a human. To me, that makes his teaching more valuable.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I suggest that you are not at the end of your journey, but instead your voyage has just begun.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.

You cannot find God in a book.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I think your ego has taken control of your direction. Let go of the self and listen to the quiet voice (the Karmic Voice).

Originally posted by Greatest I am
I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.

OK.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

Let go. Stop trying to place the round peg into the square hole that is in front of you. Look elsewhere for the round hole.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.

The pursuit of God will lead you to all places, and all gods. For all things are part of God.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Do you love and cherish every cell in your body? If you don't does that mean you hate your body? No. You don't look at the cells of your body in that way. This is an analogy that will help you understand God, and as I would say Buddhahood.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.

Be careful of the ego. It will guide you in the wrong direction.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.

In my religion, Jesus is a Bodhisattva. He is one of us who has reach a point of growth that his next step is to enter Nirvana. However, he/she has chosen to return and point the way for the rest of us. I am the way, is what he/she said. Note: I say he/she because the true entity of Bodhisattva Jesus is nether male or female.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?

Regards
DL

I cannot answer this question.

That's mine....same guy?

Nobody ****s with the Jesus.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
...and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.

Is there documentation or data behind this? I didn't know gnostics to be an especially put-upon group in modern society. At least relative to several religious groups that are openly mistrusted and persecuted.

Also, there are gnostic churches. I have a friend who's a gnostic bishop. To say the churches "dare not teach" certain things is a bit misleading. That's true of any belief if you selectively pick which churches to compare it to.

My Jesus is Carl Sagan.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
My Jesus is Carl Sagan.

At least Carl Sagan Christ wrote his own books. Unlike Jesus who wrote... nothing.

And no one wrote anything about him in his lifetime.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
And no one wrote anything about him in his lifetime.

I think the first book was written between 60 and 150 years after his death. It's amazing that the writers could remember things in so much detail after so many years.

It's also funny how there's historical evidence of the fall of Troy or the existence of Hrothgar's mighty hall, but no one willingly believes in the supernatural events in the tales. Religion requires a special kind of evidence filter.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It's also funny how there's historical evidence of the fall of Troy or the existence of Hrothgar's mighty hall, but no one willingly believes in the supernatural events in the tales. Religion requires a special kind of evidence filter.

Not all religions. Just the ones we are stuck with. If everyone was a Buddhist, the world would be a better place. Unfortunately, its not really the Buddhist style to take over the world.

But what kind of Buddhist? It is not a homogeneous religion and has a large foundation of faith-based assertions as well. The difference being here in the west, Buddhism appears less aggressive and visible than Abrahamic religions.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But what kind of Buddhist? It is not a homogeneous religion and has a large foundation of faith-based assertions as well. The difference being here in the west, Buddhism appears less aggressive and visible than Abrahamic religions.

First off, Mahayana. Theravada is just weird. Then something that doesn't require temples or priests. You might as well keep Christianity, if you are going to have temples and priests.

Good luck convincinbg more than ten people to drop tax sheltered institutions and a religious eliute status.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Good luck convincinbg more than ten people to drop tax sheltered institutions and a religious eliute status.

There are other people who are now starting to fight over that. So, if I hold my breath, it just might all fall into place.

Ok, I'm tuning blue, so back to breathing.

We can not save ourselves or be saved without Jesus because we all have sinned and made mistakes. However, we do have the choice whether or not we believe in and follow Him- and, thus, whether or not we will let ourselves be saved.

Originally posted by m317
We can not save ourselves or be saved without Jesus because we all have sinned and made mistakes. However, we do have the choice whether or not we believe in and follow Him- and, thus, whether or not we will let ourselves be saved.

But the story of Adam and Eve is fiction. There is no original sin. I know this to be true because older stories of Adam and Eve exist.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But the story of Adam and Eve is fiction. There is no original sin. I know this to be true because older stories of Adam and Eve exist.

1) What's the oldest Adam and Eve story that you know of?

2) What happens in that version of the Adam and Eve story that is different from, say, the Official King James version of the Bible version of Adam and Eve?

Well, there's the Jewish Adam and Eve story, I guess if you could call it that - that the first woman born was actually Lilith and that Adam didn't want her because she wanted, you know, not to be subservient, and so she was cast out of the Garden and then Eve was made.

Judaism predates Christianity. By a lot.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
1) What's the oldest Adam and Eve story that you know of?

2) What happens in that version of the Adam and Eve story that is different from, say, the Official King James version of the Bible version of Adam and Eve?

What siriuswriter said.