Tenebrous vs Darth Krayt

Started by NewGuy014 pages

Tenebrous should win me thinks.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not really. Afterimages are very usually given to fast characters

To be fair, Sidious in Dark Empire didn't have afterimages in either of his duels.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Tenebrous has a ritual set up that enables his essence to connect to his maxi-chlorians, then he possesses Krayt.

Krayt possesses Tenebrous's body in exchange, and uses dark transfer on his own body as he's leaving, leaving Tenebrous screwed.

Krayt knows essence transfer too, after all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I am confused, because thats not how I see things.

When in a combat situation, combatants usually throw up an automatic shield to block attacks. Theres no point not to. It stops people from getting cheap surprise first hits in. Breaking through that shield indicates better TK ability imo.


Except you're wrong. in Rule of two, Bane directed a telekinetic wave against Zannah. She threw up a Barrier yet, if I recall, Bane's wave broke through it and sent her flying. Krayt did the same thing except Cade never put up a Barrier; thus, Krayt didn't break through anything.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vader did? Thats.... nice?

Tenebrous is far faster than Vader; as SWL says, do the math.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Seven of the deadliest gangsters doesn't match up to hand picked force using bodyguards for the Emperor. Unless they have actual feats suggesting it, a non-force user should always be assumed to be lesser than a force user.

Except that they have no feats.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt blitzing them is extremely impressive.

Not really. The speed required to blitz them is ambiguous, but given their lack of exposure, I'm willing to say that anyone who can swing their lightsaber invisibly fast would slaughter them as Krayt did.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Only some artists do that. It comes down to artistic differences. Just because people in Legacy don't have afterimages doesn't mean they're slow. Krayt wasn't mentioned as being noticeably slower than Luke. Or Anakin when he was Hett.

So what? You can't justify Krayt's speed by blaming the artists and their style.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pfft, I think in that case I'd call bullshit and say he was just slowing his fall down the same way everyone does.

Of course you're willing to throw away feats you don't like. Tyranus knows the power doppelganger; does this mean he'd use it in combat despite never having done so? Would Yoda use Battle Meditation in a fight despite never having done so? List goes on.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean like how its an appeal to ignorance that because we haven't seen Krayt do TP in combat, he can't?

The difference is that Krayt has has quite a few opportunities to do so, whereas Tenebrous haven't even been in a fight.

Originally posted by Q99
Krayt possesses Tenebrous's body in exchange

Krayt would never do that, unless he knows that Tenebrous is possessing his.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
To be fair, Sidious in Dark Empire didn't have afterimages in either of his duels.

No, but IIRC, he and Luke fought too fast for Leia to even see.


Not really. The speed required to blitz them is ambiguous, but given their lack of exposure, I'm willing to say that anyone who can swing their lightsaber invisibly fast would slaughter them as Krayt did.

Considering they're hand-picked bodyguards lead by the Emperor's cousin who had him surrounded, doesn't seem too likely.

Almost no-one slaughters even rank-and-file Jedi/Sith that fast, let alone the Emperor's personal bodyguard who the Emperor thought might have been able to fight free and escape.

Krayt would never do that, unless he knows that Tenebrous is possessing his.

Possession attempts are sensed pretty often, and Krayt's versed in the technique.

Originally posted by Q99
Considering they're hand-picked bodyguards lead by the Emperor's cousin who had him surrounded, doesn't seem too likely.

Considering that Mundi was a member of the Council long before Anakin, he's definitely Anakin's superior.

No. Rank means nothing.

Originally posted by Q99
Possession attempts are sensed pretty often, and Krayt's versed in the technique.

Darth Plagueis, whose speciality was life, immortality, midi-chlorians etc., never knew that Tenebrous essence hang on to his maxi-chlorians. Why should Krayt?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Considering that Mundi was a member of the Council long before Anakin, he's definitely Anakin's superior.

No. Rank means nothing.

Anakin and Mundi are both council members, one just got there first... and as befitting Mundi's rank, he is more powerful than almost all non-council Jedi, with just a few exceptions.

And, this isn't purely a matter of rank either, but these are hand-picked for a combat position, and most IKs have solid combat skills (unlike the Jedi, they're purely a combat order).

I'm not saying higher rank automatically equals better, but beating no-named masters is generally more impressive than beating no-named knights is more impressive than being no-named padawan, and the head of the bodyguard (who's named, is clearly shown a position of respect, viewed by the Emperor as having a chance of escaping multiple sith, and does some stuff outside of the fight, as well as being from a family we know is very strong in the force) is an even more specific position.

And it's not even blitzing them one after another- it's literally blitzing three of them in the same motion. Even high-speed characters almost never do that kind of thing.

The case for Tenebrous having a speed advantage of any note is rather shaky. Krayt has the better dueling history.


Darth Plagueis, whose speciality was life, immortality, midi-chlorians etc., never knew that Tenebrous essence hang on to his maxi-chlorians. Why should Krayt?

Because unlike Plagueis at the time, he knew essence transfer and succeeded in, well, basically what Plagueis was aiming for! Dark Transfer allowed the manipulation of life in a way Plagueis greatly desired.

Originally posted by Q99
Because unlike Plagueis at the time, he knew essence transfer and succeeded in, well, basically what Plagueis was aiming for! Dark Transfer allowed the manipulation of life in a way Plagueis greatly desired.

Plagueis was aware of Essence Transfer, but thought it impossible because its secret had been taken to the grave by a Banite Sith. He felt Tenebrous' last midi-chlorians leave his body, but never noted that Tenebrous' maxi-chlorians bonded with him. I honestly have no idea why Krayt would know when Plagueis, as I said, couldn't, and he devoted his entire career as a Sith to manipulate life.

Originally posted by Q99
Krayt knows essence transfer too, after all.

When is this said?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Tenebrous is far faster than Vader;

Proof?

He implied it during his fight with Cade when he said something along the lines of coming back in another body or coming back in Cade's body.

Originally posted by ares834
Proof?

You think Vader is as fast as Plagueis? He's not. Tenebrous is.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You think Vader is as fast as Plagueis? He's not. Tenebrous is.

Once again, proof?

Per Luceno, Plagueis could compete with Sidious, meaning he has sufficient speed to not get blitzed. Vader is equal to Maul in speed, who can't even see Sidious.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Per Luceno, Plagueis could compete with Sidious, meaning he has sufficient speed to not get blitzed. Vader is equal to Maul in speed, who can't even see Sidious.

First and most importantly, that's Plagueis not Tenebrous...

Secondly, where is it stated that Maul "can't even see Sidious". In one of their 'duels' Maul managed to bite Sids and in the second one (The Clone Wars one) Maul managed to get a hit or two in.

Originally posted by ares834
First and most importantly, that's Plagueis not Tenebrous...

Secondly, where is it stated that Maul "can't even see Sidious". In one of their 'duels' Maul managed to bite Sids and in the second one (The Clone Wars one) Maul managed to get a hit or two in.


Did you even read the quotes I posted? Tenebrous ran at the same speed Plagueis did.

LOL. Seriously? This has happened thrice, from what I recall. Episode I Journal: Darth Maul, The Wrath of Darth Maul and Darth Maul: The Shadow Conspiracy. In the first two, Maul failed to track not only the movements of Sidious' blade bt also Sidious himself. In the last one, Maul only saw several afterimages of Sidious' blade.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Did you even read the quotes I posted? Tenebrous ran at the same speed Plagueis did.

The same speed as an apprentice Plaguies... Plus, running speed=/=combat speed

Originally posted by Intrepid37
LOL. Seriously? This has happened thrice, from what I recall. Episode I Journal: Darth Maul, The Wrath of Darth Maul and Darth Maul: The Shadow Conspiracy. In the first two, Maul failed to track not only the movements of Sidious' blade bt also Sidious himself. In the last one, Maul only saw several afterimages of Sidious' blade.

Than post the quotes. Shouldn't be too hard.

Originally posted by ares834
The same speed as an apprentice Plaguies... Plus, running speed=/=combat speed

I recall that Plagueis was over 100 year olds, and his best speed feats come only few pages later. Plagueis spent the rest of his life seeking further knowledge of midi-chlorians and training Palpatine as a Sith Lord, not getting faster.

Originally posted by ares834
Than post the quotes. Shouldn't be too hard.
Episode I Journal: Darth Maul
The lightsaber whirls in the air, twirling, held in my Master's hand. I can't track it, it moves so fast. But I know it's heading for me. Lord Sidious moves faster than my eye can follow. I smell heat and smoke. The laser traces the outline of my body, my face, my hands. The buzz is loud in my ear. One flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle, and I am dead.
Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy
Sidious raised his saber and flew at Maul, who parried desperately, his mechanical legs whirring as he sought to counter his former Master鈥檚 blows. Sidious鈥檚 sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.

To be fair, in that first quote Maul was injured, exhausted and half-delirious.

No, he wasn't. He was in The Wrath of Darth Maul, which is why I didn't post that one.

Fair enough on the Maul stuff. However, no where is the first is it stated that he is unable to see Palpatine. Also, Maul (even though he only say Sidious's lightsaber as a blur) did give him a fight in the CW. Even in their one on one he managed to get a kick in.

Anyway, just because Plaguies can compete with TPM Sidious does not mean he is as fast.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I recall that Plagueis was over 100 year olds, and his best speed feats come only few pages later. Plagueis spent the rest of his life seeking further knowledge of midi-chlorians and training Palpatine as a Sith Lord, not getting faster.

馃槵

It's a very large leap of logic to assume Plaguies speed is the same during his training under Tenebrous to him at the end of his life. And once again, combat speed=/=running speed. Simply because Tenebrous can run as fast as Plags does not mean he has the same combat speed.

Ultimately, the evidence for Teneborus having greater combat speed than either Krayt or Vader is far too shaky.