Hmm.......and after a couple of months in that same year (in another title of New Gods'😉, we have Orion telling us that all mortal universeS exist inside bubbles in the one reality of New Genesis:
Hmm.......and after a couple of months in that same year (in another title of New Gods'😉, we have Orion telling us that all mortal universeS exist inside bubbles in the one reality of New Genesis:
Originally posted by operator616Lol, yeah they were giving the New Gods a massive push that year. Shame the trend didn't stick with all writers. Heck, Morrison is the only other writer who has consistently painted them in such an uber light. He's the fella who introduced the Genesis Box in Rock of Ages, which can destroy and recreate entire universes with the push of a button. He also reminded us that the Worlogog(yet another universal power) is little more than a New God plaything.
Hmm.......and after a couple of months in that same year (in another title of New Gods'😉, we have Orion telling us that all mortal universeS exist inside bubbles in the one reality of New Genesis:
Years later, Morrison showed us that when a single New God falls from the 4th World into the 3rd dimension, the entire 3D multiverse dies as a result(Darkseid's fall also destroyed the Milestone universe as well.) He showed us that Darkseid can close-off entire segments of time, even to a temporal adept like Rip Hunter. He introduced staggering New God tech such as the God-Bullet and Ancestor Box/Hyper-Adapter. He showed us(ala The Return of Bruce Wayne) that a massive build-up of Omega energies is sufficient to erase ALL timelines throughout creation. Etc.
In hindsight, Grant did a LOT for the New Gods(Darkseid in particular.)
Originally posted by Galan007I don't think any new god falling to the 3d would make that happen though.. I thought it was only DS that caused that effect because of his position in the universe... i.e. conception of evil.
Lol, yeah they were giving the New Gods a massive push that year. Shame the trend didn't stick with all writers. Heck, Morrison is the only other writer who has consistently painted them in such an uber light. He's the fella who introduced the Genesis Box in Rock of Ages, which can destroy and recreate entire universes with the push of a button. He also reminded us that the Worlogog(yet another universal power) is little more than a New God plaything.Years later, Morrison showed us that when a single New God falls from the 4th World into the 3rd dimension, the entire 3D multiverse dies as a result(Darkseid's fall also destroyed the Milestone universe as well.) He showed us that Darkseid can close-off entire segments of time, even to a temporal adept like Rip Hunter. He introduced staggering New God tech such as the God-Bullet and Ancestor Box/Hyper-Adapter. He showed us(ala The Return of Bruce Wayne) that a massive build-up of Omega energies is sufficient to erase ALL timelines throughout creation. Etc.
In hindsight, Grant did a LOT for the New Gods(Darkseid in particular.)
^ It was shown in DC universe #0 (2008):
http://i.imgur.com/ev8M4I7.jpg
That's Darkseid's fall, encompassing the multiverse.
Also, as Galan said, Darkseid's omega energies (inside Bruce) was destorying reality in Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne.
Originally posted by Galan007
Lol, yeah they were giving the New Gods a massive push that year. Shame the trend didn't stick with all writers. Heck, Morrison is the only other writer who has consistently painted them in such an uber light. He's the fella who introduced the Genesis Box in Rock of Ages, which can destroy and recreate entire universes with the push of a button. He also reminded us that the Worlogog(yet another universal power) is little more than a New God plaything.Years later, Morrison showed us that when a single New God falls from the 4th World into the 3rd dimension, the entire 3D multiverse dies as a result(Darkseid's fall also destroyed the Milestone universe as well.) He showed us that Darkseid can close-off entire segments of time, even to a temporal adept like Rip Hunter. He introduced staggering New God tech such as the God-Bullet and Ancestor Box/Hyper-Adapter. He showed us(ala The Return of Bruce Wayne) that a massive build-up of Omega energies is sufficient to erase ALL timelines throughout creation. Etc.
In hindsight, Grant did a LOT for the New Gods(Darkseid in particular.)
Yep.
Apart from the things you mentioned, Morrison also portrayed the New Gods as more like abstract beings. In those batman hidden chapter issues, he had Batman (and then Diana as well) state that the New Gods are living ideas , hence why imo Darkseid didn't really die and was attempting to resurrect himself in "the return of Bruce Wayne".
in an interview Morrison also said that this time (in final crisis) we're going to see the real new gods or something like that. the interview was on cbr but now it's erased; and he gave us hints in Final Crisis about that as well (something which is often over-looked).
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiAside from the scan operator posted which depicts Darkseid's fall being responsible for flushing the prime DC multiverse down the toilet, his 'death' in the 4th World(and subsequent 'fall' into the 3rd dimension) destroyed the entire Milestone universe as well:
I don't think any new god falling to the 3d would make that happen though.. I thought it was only DS that caused that effect because of his position in the universe... i.e. conception of evil.
Originally posted by operator616👆
Yep.Apart from the things you mentioned, Morrison also portrayed the New Gods as more like abstract beings. In those batman hidden chapter issues, he had Batman (and then Diana as well) state that the New Gods are living ideas , hence why imo Darkseid didn't really die and was attempting to resurrect himself in "the return of Bruce Wayne".
Originally posted by operator616Yeah, that is definitely what Morrison was getting at in FC #2:
in an interview Morrison also said that this time (in final crisis) we're going to see the real new gods or something like that. the interview was on cbr but now it's erased; and he gave us hints in Final Crisis about that as well (something which is often over-looked).
Originally posted by operator616
^ It was shown in DC universe #0 (2008):http://i.imgur.com/ev8M4I7.jpg
That's Darkseid's fall, encompassing the multiverse.
Also, as Galan said, Darkseid's omega energies (inside Bruce) was destorying reality in Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne.
Yep.
Apart from the things you mentioned, Morrison also portrayed the New Gods as more like abstract beings. In those batman hidden chapter issues, he had Batman (and then Diana as well) state that the New Gods are living ideas , hence why imo Darkseid didn't really die and was attempting to resurrect himself in "the return of Bruce Wayne".
in an interview Morrison also said that this time (in final crisis) we're going to see the real new gods or something like that. the interview was on cbr but now it's erased; and he gave us hints in Final Crisis about that as well (something which is often over-looked).
Where do you rank FC Darkseid? Full power.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiHis fall is definitely what caused said effects...
I know DS fall caused some of those effects.. I was saying.. I thought it was specifically because it was DS and his specific position within the continuity of the universe. Not that ANY god falling into the 3d would cause that. So you're guys are saying any god falling would cause that?
"Darkseid's falling, dragging this whole universe down as he goes. The entire structure of existence! The whole multiverse, Wally!":
http://imgur.com/jJWONzk
_______
"The impact of Darkseid's fall is causing cracks to spread through all space sectors."
"Darkseid's dragging all our friends into hell with him.":
http://imgur.com/IOmBe1n
_______
The damage caused to the Orrery of Worlds from Darkseid's fall is under repair.":
http://imgur.com/cLBKD4X
More examples can be provided it need be. But yeah, Darkseid's fall from the 4th World into the 3rd dimension ripped space/time, and made him the epicenter of a multiversal singularity that was dragging existence down to 'hell' with him. Here is a visual representation of that:
@ operator:
This scan from FC #5 also hints at the New Gods(and their weaponry) being more akin to metaphysical concepts/ideas, rather than purely physical 'things':
http://imgur.com/IOmBe1n
Originally posted by Galan007
@ operator:
This scan from FC #5 also hints at the New Gods(and their weaponry) being more akin to metaphysical concepts/ideas, rather than purely physical 'things':
http://imgur.com/IOmBe1n
👆
I must add: in that same issue, we have Darkseid saying this:
http://i.imgur.com/IazJij4.jpg?1
"They have only ever faced an idea of a God before, now is God incarnate come among them"
That hints that this was the fully manifested Darkseid, while all other portrayals weren't at full power/full manifestation. Morrison confirmed that in the interview which i previously mentioned. See ahead.
Originally posted by Golgo13
I remember Morrison in an interview saying that The New Gods (evil ones) were all equal to Galactus. But in terms of feats they didn't do anything close to Galactus. lol.
It was in that same interview that Morrison said that these are Full power New Gods (in FC).
I read the whole interview on cbr, though it got erased last time i checked; but here's the relevant i found in this page:
http://geniusboyfiremelon.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-new-gods.html
" Everything we’ve ever seen before has been kind of projections from the world of the New Gods and for the first time we’re seeing them in their full power. And it’s like what would happen if a god appeared on the planet. Galactus is one god. This is a whole bunch of them—that’s how bad it is."
This + the on panel scan which i provided above should confirm it. And there's also this from Final Crisis: Secret Files:
http://i.imgur.com/Jqn4wxi.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/TtMzkUZ.jpg?1
Notice how Morrison says "the higher vibratory world of the New Gods" (also saying that we only see small parts of the New Gods artifacts and weapons) and refers to the multiverse as the "material world". Further suggesting that the New Gods are metaphysical beings.
On another note, we've seen even back in Ostrander's Spectre series (4th volume) that Darkseid is actually necessary for existence as deemed by the Presence itself (presumably the higher force which Darkseid is referring to):
http://i.imgur.com/TIEqH57.jpg
Originally posted by Golgo13
Where do you rank FC Darkseid? Full power.
I wouldn't advice you to use him in a battle, because FC Darkseid was actually physically weak. But in terms of raw power he is certainly up there with the multiversal beings. Dream/Destiny of the endless level, id say.
Originally posted by operator616
👆I must add: in that same issue, we have Darkseid saying this:
http://i.imgur.com/IazJij4.jpg?1
"They have only ever faced an idea of a God before, now is God incarnate come among them"
That hints that this was the fully manifested Darkseid, while all other portrayals weren't at full power/full manifestation. Morrison confirmed that in the interview which i previously mentioned. See ahead.
It was in that same interview that Morrison said that these are Full power New Gods (in FC).
I read the whole interview on cbr, though it got erased last time i checked; but here's the relevant i found in this page:
http://geniusboyfiremelon.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-new-gods.html
" Everything we’ve ever seen before has been kind of projections from the world of the New Gods and [B] for the first time we’re seeing them in their full power.
And it’s like what would happen if a god appeared on the planet. Galactus is one god. This is a whole bunch of them—that’s how bad it is."This + the on panel scan which i provided above should confirm it. And there's also this from Final Crisis: Secret Files:
http://i.imgur.com/Jqn4wxi.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/TtMzkUZ.jpg?1Notice how Morrison says "the higher vibratory world of the New Gods" (also saying that we only see small parts of the New Gods artifacts and weapons) and refers to the multiverse as the "material world". Further suggesting that the New Gods are metaphysical beings.
On another note, we've seen even back in Ostrander's Spectre series (4th volume) that Darkseid is actually necessary for existence as deemed by the Presence itself (presumably the higher force which Darkseid is referring to):
http://i.imgur.com/TIEqH57.jpg
I wouldn't advice you to use him in a battle, because FC Darkseid was actually physically weak. But in terms of raw power he is certainly up there with the multiversal beings. Dream/Destiny of the endless level, id say. [/B]
The problem I have with the New Gods is their power depiction=/=writer intent.
Reading Final Crisis, we have what is the actual physical manifestation of New Gods on Earth (which has never actually happened before) but they didn't display anything close to their supposed level of power. Kalibak was eviscerated by Tawny the Tiger (which was funny as heck) and Darkseid really didn't do much (except use the Omega sanction on Batman who fatally wounded his body in the process). Darkseid is solid sky father (he's actually implied to be above that) but he rarely shows such power except when he recently destroyed a planet casually and owned the JL.
I have no doubt that the New Gods are meant to be extremely powerful but DC hasn't really shown said power properly IMO.
Originally posted by leonidas
it was a bad a$$ feat. i used that a couple times in ds threads, but for whatever reason, when some random god can do it, and we know ds>>>some random god, the implication never translates.... it's weird the way people view darkseid.
I get what you're saying but I can see why people would be skeptical. It implies that even a regular New God would end beings in the lower dimensions. Heck, even the New God version of hand ninjas (A Parademon) should be ridiculous. BUT we know how these things actually play out in practice.
Also, Grant Morrison's nature of writing doesn't help. By that I mean, the point he's trying to make isn't conveyed in a way that some are use to seeing or understanding. Usually powerful characters utilize their powers in more obvious ways. Especially for vs. threads where most of these discussions are brought up. Read a Final Crisis Darkseid vs. Galactus/Odin to get what I mean.
And to be clear, I'm not saying Grant Morrison should dumb his shit down for others (Even though I think it's too convoluted at times and confuses complicated with deep and meaningful), just trying to give some ideas as to why some there might be some miscommunication.
Originally posted by leonidas
it was a bad a$$ feat. i used that a couple times in ds threads, but for whatever reason, when some random god can do it, and we know ds>>>some random god, the implication never translates.... it's weird the way people view darkseid.
Originally posted by deathlife
Darkseid is solid sky father (he's actually implied to be above that) but he rarely shows such power except when he recently destroyed a planet casually and owned the JL.
[/B]
Darkseid didn't really lose to anything but combined might of cosmic powered Orion, super powered gun, death itself, Superman's singing. Miracle Machine (which is just a super power mother box) warped reality, and undid the damage Darkseid has done.
Just because New Gods don't show their powers in battleboard fashion doesn't mean they weren't suppose to be that powerful. It's like the Endless/Lucifer mythos hierarchy, we don't really get to see huge displays of their power more then their statements. Through New Gods aren't really good for vs threads, but they are not suppose to be weak.
Originally posted by Iron-man
Really? In that event we say Darkseid damage the whole universe, and we had A monitor confirmed that Darkseid damaged 52 worlds, and Milestone Dharma have to repair some of Darkseid damage, as well as Robinson tie using Darkseid's godlike scope of his power.Darkseid didn't really lose to anything but combined might of cosmic powered Orion, super powered gun, death itself, Superman's singing. Miracle Machine (which is just a super power mother box) warped reality, and undid the damage Darkseid has done.
Just because New Gods don't show their powers in battleboard fashion doesn't mean they weren't suppose to be that powerful. It's like the Endless/Lucifer mythos hierarchy, we don't really get to see huge displays of their power more then their statements. Through New Gods aren't really good for vs threads, but they are not suppose to be weak.
I understand that. My earlier statement was that they were supposed to be very powerful but we rarely see displays of said power (except for the earlier scan of them creating a universe for fun).
The Endless/Lucifer operate in a different story medium (they don't feature in action/adventure/superhero comics) and yes, the New Gods should display more of their power more often for us to gauge what level they operate at.
I do agree that the New Gods aren't weak but they also aren't good for discussions like this because their power level based on on-panel displays isn't so clear.
