Darth Vader vs. Yoda

Started by Col. Valerian3 pages
Col. Valerian Republic Navy

Yoda would destroy Vader. As psychologically hurt Vader was during his fight against Kenobi, his inability to ultimately kill his former master is proof he wouldn't last much against Yoda, who is superior to Kenobi in absolutely every aspect of combat.

Q99 Senior Member
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yoda's agility is his strength; Vader's lack of it is his weakness. It'd be fairly easy.

Not so much that it hinders him against agile foes. He's less acrobatic, but can still handle against speed fine.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Yoda would destroy Vader. As psychologically hurt Vader was during his fight against Kenobi, his inability to ultimately kill his former master is proof he wouldn't last much against Yoda, who is superior to Kenobi in absolutely every aspect of combat.

Yoda is superior, but I do not think "destroy quickly" level superior. Vader's force knowledge has gone up a lot since then, and he's a lot more cool headed too.

Col. Valerian Republic Navy

Although his Force power has indeed increased, his saber skills actually were greatly reduced after his fight with Kenobi. And even though his Force power has increased, it hasn't increased enough to threaten Yoda.

Intrepid37 Restricted

Originally posted by Q99
Not so much that it hinders him against agile foes. He's less acrobatic, but can still handle against speed fine.

He can. I have defended his speed before, after all. But Yoda is just on another level. Vader is not lasting more than 15-20 seconds.

DARTH POWER Senior Member

People always seem to forget that Vader is 80% as Powerful as the Emperor. He's getting beaten here, but not stomped the way people are making out.

Also Vader's force tk feats are crazy. Definitely Sidious/Yoda level.

Intrepid37 Restricted

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Also Vader's force tk feats are crazy. Definitely Sidious/Yoda level.

I lol'd. When Vader can telekinetically move 200 meter long transporters or effortlessly break through the defenses of two Force practitioners capable of manipulating nearly 20-meter long starships, then we can compare them.

DARTH POWER Senior Member
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I lol'd. When Vader can telekinetically move 200 meter long transporters or effortlessly break through the defenses of two Force practitioners capable of manipulating nearly 20-meter long starships, then we can compare them.

Are you kidding me? He's stalemated a guy who can move Star Destroyers and explode massive frigates.

Intrepid37 Restricted

Same guy who was ''no match'' for the Emperor?

DARTH POWER Senior Member

^ That doesn't mean he wasn't even close to the Emperor. He did have Palpatine screaming in pain.

And like you always point out yourself, Vader wasn't even in his prime until ROTJ.

Intrepid37 Restricted

But we have already seen Vader's limits when he collapsed a cathedral in Darth Vader and The Lost Command which took a lot of effort on his part. Yoda's feat, while not only much greater on sheer scale, was done with less effort.

Excalibur2776 Restricted

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Jensaarai has a strong belief that Yoda is incompetent as a duelist. Thus, I cannot take him seriously.

👆

Petrus Debonaire Member

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
People always seem to forget that Vader is 80% as Powerful as the Emperor. He's getting beaten here, but not stomped the way people are making out.

Also Vader's force tk feats are crazy. Definitely Sidious/Yoda level.

I disagree, but even if he is on Yoda's level of TK, his great disadvantage here is his lack of speed. Since he got burned the shit out of his body by Obi, his lightsaber mastery lost significant prowess to it, and Yoda = RotS Sidious in this aspect, who in turn would handily beat RotS Vader. I think Yoda's good enough to exploit this weakness and be able to beat Vader with maybe some difficulty, but not much.

DARTH POWER Senior Member
Originally posted by Intrepid37
But we have already seen Vader's limits when he collapsed a cathedral in Darth Vader and The Lost Command which took a lot of effort on his part. Yoda's feat, while not only much greater on sheer scale, was done with less effort.

Again, going by feats he's stalemated a guy who moves Star Destroyers. Heck he even managed to force choke him a few times.

He's also got different types of Insane TK feats like the Skype choke and even choking Xizor from another frigging solar system.

Originally posted by Petrus
I disagree, but even if he is on Yoda's level of TK, his great disadvantage here is his lack of speed. Since he got burned the shit out of his body by Obi, his lightsaber mastery lost significant prowess to it, and Yoda = RotS Sidious in this aspect, who in turn would handily beat RotS Vader. I think Yoda's good enough to exploit this weakness and be able to beat Vader with maybe some difficulty, but not much.

I agree he will get battered in a Saber fight. And Sabers is what it will come to in this fight.

Intrepid37 Restricted

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Again, going by feats he's stalemated a guy who moves Star Destroyers.

So what? Starkiller was losing to Shaak Ti as well. Does that mean Ti's TK rivals his?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He's also got different types of Insane TK feats like the Skype choke and even choking Xizor from another frigging solar system.

We're talking about power, not range or precision.

Q99 Senior Member
Originally posted by Intrepid37
He can. I have defended his speed before, after all. But Yoda is just on another level. Vader is not lasting more than 15-20 seconds.

Dooku was holding out against Yoda, and I think could've lasted quite awhile as long as it was sabers. Vader I also see being able to last.

Heck, Maul and Savage lasted longer than 15-20 seconds.

Intrepid37 Restricted

Originally posted by Q99
Dooku was holding out against Yoda, and I think could've lasted quite awhile as long as it was sabers. Vader I also see being able to last.

But you have to note the difference in the ways which Vader and Dooku fights. Dooku is more reliant on precision and mobility than Vader, whose core style, by default, is limited with regards to agility, not to mention that Vader's suit makes him less mobile than he already is. When he lost to Starkiller, he allowed Starkiller to connect a hit because he was unable to properly defend himself fast enough from Starkiller's attack because of Starkiller's marginally better speed and agility. This was also part of why Vader lost to Maul, whose own agility and speed allowed him to adept to the environment better. Yoda ''takes Form IV to the highest level'' (Fight Saber), and his agility and speed is extraordinary and supersedes that of Starkiller's and Maul's by fairly large margins. Vader has a hard time with characters whose mobility and agility, in combination with their comparable skill, supersedes his own. Yoda is just a better swordsman. On Vjun, a nexus of dark side power, Yoda fought faster than Dooku and also forced him to retreat, which speaks volumes of his significant superior powers.

DARTH POWER Senior Member
Originally posted by Intrepid37
So what? Starkiller was losing to Shaak Ti as well. Does that mean Ti's TK rivals his?

1. He beat Shaak Ti through his far superior TK.

2. This was clearly an advanced and more powerful Shaak Ti amped on Felucia.

3. Starkiller reached new heights of power since that fight.

4. He beat Shaak Ti through his far superior TK.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
We're talking about power, not range or precision.

Lol you think someone weak or average in the Force could do that? It clearly requires great great power.

Zett Senior Member
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ That doesn't mean he wasn't even close to the Emperor. He did have Palpatine screaming in pain.

Depends on the point of view. I guess, that Starkiller was stronger then usually, when he decided to sacrifice himself. A bit like Kenobi, when he fought brothers (I mean, both gave more then 100% of themselves).

But normaly, if Starkiller would fight as against Vader, he would be annihilated. Like in DS ending of this story.

Intrepid37 Restricted

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
1. He beat Shaak Ti through his far superior TK.

Actually, I don't think he even utilized TK in that fight.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
2. This was clearly an advanced and more powerful Shaak Ti amped on Felucia.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
3. Starkiller reached new heights of power since that fight.

Evidence?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Lol you think someone weak or average in the Force could do that? It clearly requires great great power.

I can't take you serious if you're seriously acting as if I said Vader is weak or average in the Force. Vader is my second-favorite character and clearly one of the most powerful practitioners of the Force in the entire mythos. His feats attest to that. So what if Yoda and Sidious are on another level with TK? Personally, there are only three other characters whose telekinetic capacity I put on their level. Vader not being one of them doesn't make him weak.

DARTH POWER Senior Member
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Actually, I don't think he even utilized TK in that fight.

Read the novel. He finished that fight by stopping her Saber strike with TK. (Which by the way was a desperate suicide attempt by Shaak Ti).

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Evidence?

She had the whole environment under her control, and her death completely shifted the balance of the Force on Felucia. Again read the novel.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I can't take you serious if you're seriously acting as if I said Vader is weak or average in the Force.

Was being sarcastic to point out to you that the feat in mention clearly is a "Power" feat, and not just a "precision" feat like you were making out.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Vader is my second-favorite character and clearly one of the most powerful practitioners of the Force in the entire mythos. His feats attest to that. So what if Yoda and Sidious are on another level with TK? Personally, there are only three other characters whose telekinetic capacity I put on their level. Vader not being one of them doesn't make him weak.

But his feats are comnparable. Choking a guy who moves Star Destroyers, Choking from another solar system, ripping apart an entire bridge, owning Jedi via TK with ease, blocking Blaster bolts with his hands, Skype choking(the last 2 are actually movie feats) e.t.c e.t.c