Re: Re: How do we fix America?
Originally posted by dadudemon
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/The middle class, based on income, is defined on that site as household income between $25,500 – $76,500 a year.
Here's the real problem: my household income is well above $76,500 and I can assure you, I CAN'T AFFORD A SECOND HOME. The problem is the mentality that you and millions of others think that you should be able to afford something like a second home.
You can't afford a second home. You shouldn't buy a second home. You should live within your means and stop spending your money until you have nothing left each time you get paid.
I was going to say something similar to this. Since when is owning two homes a benchmark for the middle class? That's usually upper class kinda shit.
I feel like the most productive discussion that could spring from this topic is an analysis of historical economic cycles and societal fears surrounding them.
Because I'm not saying there isn't something to all of this, but even PhD economists don't really know what will happen, nor agree on what the problem is. More than nearly any other realm of study, a layman's understanding of the issues is inevitably going to be detrimentally flawed (and I include myself in that assessment).
But, outside of that rather fruitless teeth-gnashing, a lot of things are better than they've ever been (I can only speak for America). Crime across the board...historical lows (or nearly so). Life expectancy only recently dipped from its zenith iirc. Access to the internet and information, higher than ever. Etc. etc. Are we going to acknowledge these, or give in to irrational fear?
Social issues are bigger than economic ones, though, at least in terms of political importance. Economics has too many factors, too many of them outside politics even. But nobody truly hates Obamacare alone, for example. Or they wouldn't have if it weren't pitched by Obama. They hate the man and the platform, and this happens to be his big ticket item. It's projected hatred. So figure out how to get people to stop hating over gays and abortion and such, and we can finally have a civil discussion about universal health care. Copy/paste that argument with a number of other issues, and it will work. But try to legislate economic equality and, well, good luck.
Originally posted by Digi
I feel like the most productive discussion that could spring from this topic is an analysis of historical economic cycles and societal fears surrounding them.Because I'm not saying there isn't something to all of this, but even PhD economists don't really know what will happen, nor agree on what the problem is. More than nearly any other realm of study, a layman's understanding of the issues is inevitably going to be detrimentally flawed (and I include myself in that assessment).
But, outside of that rather fruitless teeth-gnashing, a lot of things are better than they've ever been (I can only speak for America). Crime across the board...historical lows (or nearly so). Life expectancy only recently dipped from its zenith iirc. Access to the internet and information, higher than ever. Etc. etc. Are we going to acknowledge these, or give in to irrational fear?
Social issues are bigger than economic ones, though, at least in terms of political importance. Economics has too many factors, too many of them outside politics even. But nobody truly hates Obamacare alone, for example. Or they wouldn't have if it weren't pitched by Obama. They hate the man and the platform, and this happens to be his big ticket item. It's projected hatred. So figure out how to get people to stop hating over gays and abortion and such, and we can finally have a civil discussion about universal health care. Copy/paste that argument with a number of other issues, and it will work. But try to legislate economic equality and, well, good luck.
Usually 'fighting socialist' health care, gays rights, and abortion are smoke-screens used by political groups to avoid actually doing any real work while they live well above the middle-class paygrade, with minimum work hours, benefits, and retirement secured.
It'd be nice if this country actually saw people as having innate value instead of instrumental value. And we stopped pretending corporations are people, except when it's inconvenient to be.
Originally posted by BackFire
I was going to say something similar to this. Since when is owning two homes a benchmark for the middle class? That's usually upper class kinda shit.
I own two fridge boxes. Are you saying I'm upper class now?
Kids with $100,000 educations are now working at Starbucks. There is less and less opportunities as the top jobs are getting harder and harder to come by.
Lawyers are out of work, Doctors are out of work, nursing yes its on the rise, but we can all be nurses.
I'm a marine with enough time in service to not worry , I'm lucky to have a job but military is being cut left and right.
Why do Exxon Mobile, Shell and all these oil corporations have to pay taxes. We need to be taxing them.
Originally posted by Supra
Why do Exxon Mobile, Shell and all these oil corporations have to pay taxes. We need to be taxing them.
Don't get mad at the oil companies, congress and the president make the laws. If you think the oil companies are disgusting, then don't buy their product. Walking is good for you.