Sun dipped superman vs worthy juggernaught · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

KingD19 Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

Originally posted by abhilegend
facepalm
He had the juggernaut powers at that point. Who said he only had his powers when he summoned his helmet? That's just laughable.

That's proven on panel.

When he's fighting War Machine along with Storm after Rhodie sucker punches them. You see his helmet starting to form and his eyes glowing. Then Storm says, "We need Colossus, not Juggernaut".

He summoned the Juggernaut armor fighting several people. Including Rulk, Thing, and I believe Spider-Man in Latveria.

Going by on panel showings, he has to activate his Juggernaut powers unlike Cain, and we don't even see him use them or even any indication he's using them once he goes Phoenix.

I can understand why you'd call it laughable though. I mean just take a look at your avi.

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

Originally posted by abhilegend
facepalm
He had the juggernaut powers at that point. Who said he only had his powers when he summoned his helmet? That's just laughable.

Blame Marvel.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by KingD19
That's proven on panel.
When he's fighting War Machine along with Storm after Rhodie sucker punches them. You see his helmet starting to form and his eyes glowing. Then Storm says, "We need Colossus, not Juggernaut".
He summoned the Juggernaut armor fighting several people. Including Rulk, Thing, and I believe Spider-Man in Latveria.
Going by on panel showings, he has to activate his Juggernaut powers unlike Cain, and we don't even see him use them or even any indication he's using them once he goes Phoenix.
I can understand why you'd call it laughable though. I mean just take a look at your avi.

But that doesn't means he isn't juggernaut if his helmet falls down while he is still in juggernaut form. Like Unit showed.

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UXMEN1006.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UXMEN1007.jpg

Or Sinister showed.

You can make excuses all you want, its still laughable. Calling me biased wouldn't make either Colossus or Juggernaut look any better.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Blame Marvel.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108946/2117849-uncanny_x_men_001_0023.jpg

And that showed Colossus powering up. It didn't show Colossus being powerless while not with his juggernaut helmet.

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

Originally posted by abhilegend
But that doesn't means he isn't juggernaut if his helmet falls down while he is still in juggernaut form. Like Unit showed.
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UXMEN1006.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UXMEN1007.jpg
Or Sinister showed.
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg06.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg07.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg08.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg09.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg10.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg11.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg12.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg13.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg14.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg15.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg16.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg17.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg18.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg19.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg20.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/UCXM16pg21.jpg
You can make excuses all you want, its still laughable.
And that showed Colossus powering up. It didn't show Colossus being powerless while not with his juggernaut helmet.

It showed that without his helmet, he had less power (i.e., a blast tore a hole in his chest)

KingD19 Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

If he doesn't have the helmet on in the first place, he isn't Juggernaut. Him summoning the helmet and armor and getting the glowy eyes are the visual cues of Juggernaut Power.

It's simple.

And what exactly did Sinister show? That he could alter his size as a Phoenix?

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It showed that without his helmet, he had less power (i.e., a blast tore a hole in his chest)

That was when he was in colossus form, then he summoned his juggernaut powers. Those red boots are his standard uniform, he wasn't powered up at that moment which is using wristbands and shit as his uniform.

Sixth_Winged Senior Member

What are you talking about? Thats clearly just the p5 costume with no indication of cytorraks imfluence at work. He practically refrained from using juggs powers all together during avx,.

Drakon09 Restricted

Superman stomps

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by KingD19
If he doesn't have the helmet on in the first place, he isn't Juggernaut. Him summoning the helmet and armor and getting the glowy eyes are the visual cues of Juggernaut Power.
It's simple.
And what exactly did Sinister show? That he could alter his size as a Phoenix?

Haha, what? He summons his helmet when he transforms into Juggernaut, losing it doesn't means he loses the power. Show one such instance where he lost the Juggernaut power when his helmet fell off. In fact Thing vaporized his helmet here, does that means he is no longer Juggernaut when he oneshots Thing?

Interesting logic. Since Colossus summons his helmet when he becomes Juggernaut, he loses all his power when he loses the helmet? That's just funny.

KingD19 Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

Did you read my post? You quoted it so I assumed you read it. I said if he doesn't put the helmet on, he isn't Juggernaut.

I never said he stops being Juggernaut if it's forcefully removed in battle.

Drakon09 Restricted

Superman stomps

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by KingD19
Did you read my post? You quoted it so I assumed you read it. I said if he doesn't put the helmet on, he isn't Juggernaut.
I never said he stops being Juggernaut if it's forcefully removed in battle.

And he was juggernaut when P5 Magik and he knocked each other out. So what's the problem here?

KingD19 Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

No proof of that. In fact, the opposite is more likely. As he and Illyana went to Cyttorak personally and demanded he remove the Juggernaut powers. And then Cyttorak refused and sent them away. While he had the Phoenix power he probably completely ignored the Juggernaut abilities.

maxivitopowe Herr Universem

ditto @KingD19

jaxthejester Visit The Halls of Hulk!

What is Superman's win condition in a fist fight?

I understand that his power level is highly boosted. But he's facing a foe that is designed to be immune to non-magic damage.

And even if we ignore Cain's character concept and assume that Superman can punch hard enough to harm him; there remains the problem of keeping Cain down.
We are, after all, talking about a creature that has remained fighting even after more than 90% of his body mass was magically blasted off.
Superman's best hits could literally go right through the guy, and it wouldn't keep him down.
Even if you remove entire sections of his body via brute force, new ones would simply re-form. Juggernaut magically regenerates lost tissue.
This is not a creature that can be beaten to death. Cain is powered by magic energy, not blood and bone...

Punches will not win the day against this foe.

Clark needs to bring his brain, not his brawn, to the table here.

emporerpants Senior Member

Superman wins.

Pillow Biter Senior Member

Superman at this level was said to be capable of beating someone who had absorbed the power or multiple galaxies. He might well be able to just incinerate Cain. That being said, Supes doesn't do that. So punching will do. Comics are funny that way. Cain can completely reconstitute himself, yet I bet if you hit him hard enough (and by that I mean cosmically hard) he just gets KOed.

jaxthejester Visit The Halls of Hulk!

Absorbing a small portion of the power of a single Sun does not allow one to match raw power with a being that has absorbed the FULL power of multiple Galaxies, each littered with BILLIONS of their own Suns.

One does not need to have read the issue to know that other factors are at play in such a scenario.
Plot Line/Context Sensitive Events were occurring to help facilitate his victory.
Or else it is a horrid case of PIS. Take your pick, I suppose.

But basic common sense dictates that Superman cannot just up and destroy Multi-Verse Class Beings with a right hook, simply because he kicked it in the Sun for a bit.

That is a fine case of A + B = C logic failing the reader in the worst way.

Think about the ramification of such a claim-

If Darksied threatens the JLA... Superman takes a Sun dip and one-shots him.
If SBP and Anti-Monitor show up... Superman takes a Sun Dip and one-shots them.
Captain Marvel and Black Adam at the same time? Forget about it. Sun Dip. One Shot. End of story.
A troop of Celestials? Not when a Sun is nearby.

...Superman is not the big brother of Galactus.
Story plot requirement, or writer failure, are the Occam's Razor for such a defiance of basic reasoning.

Pillow Biter Senior Member

First of all, Superman clearly metabolizes solar energy with much more than 100% efficiency--might not make sense, but seems to be how it goes.
Superman didn't just catch some rays here. He totally transformed. He was a cosmic being. IT was dumb. I didn't like it. I don't think other writers would follow suit if he went to the Sun again, i.e. under most writers he'd just get a power boost and not a radical transformation.
That being said, if the OP insists on using this one portrayal, then dumb and illogical as it is, Superman is fricking ridiculously powerful.

KingD19 Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

And so is Juggernaut as he's powered by Two Skyfather level beings.