Originally posted by Epicurus
So you don't have a single feat for Routh Superman wherein he reverses time?
There must be some problem on your end. Like I said, watch Superman.
Originally posted by jaden101
But it's only a localised phenomena. Won't matter if supes can turn back time on earth if DM can simply teleport away instantaneously.
Teleport where? Superman travels back in time, prevents the accident, and Captain Ding Dong never exists.
Originally posted by NemeBroincorrect. he CHOOSES not to act on what he sees. He can do it, he has done it... he doesn't do it because it creates alternate realities that eventually ripple to the point of destroying the universe.
Doctor Manhattan doesn't know Kryptonite's composition though, and Manhattan can only perceive time non-linearly, he can't act on what he sees.
Manhattan can see all events of his life, past-present-future... if Superman tried to go back in time to kill John before the accident, Manhattan could stop him, and since this is a forum fight where he logically wouldn't give a shit about creating holes in reality, he would.
so yeah, even the scenario where Superman is able to get away from Manhattan and kill his un-powered human form would not work.
Superman loses.
Originally posted by DrDeadpoolHe sees the past and future and the present at once, he doesn't live there.
No that wont work on Dr Manhattan , because he living the past , present and future altogether !! and he says time is a lot different than we preserve it !!
The thing is, in Watchmen time is an immutable, infallible construct that no one can alter.
This is not the case for Superman.
Originally posted by jaden101Superman flies considerably faster than Doc teleports though.
But it's only a localised phenomena. Won't matter if supes can turn back time on earth if DM can simply teleport away instantaneously.
Also, why would Doc know what Superman is doing? He isn't omniscient, and his vision is explicitly clouded by tachyons, which move so fast they travel backwards in time.
... Just... Like... Superman. Oh shit.
Originally posted by marwash22Get your Before Watchmen garbage out of this thread, it's irrelevant to the movie.
incorrect. he CHOOSES not to act on what he sees. He can do it, he has done it... he doesn't do it because it creates alternate realities that eventually ripple to the point of destroying the universe.Manhattan can see all events of his life, past-present-future... if Superman tried to go back in time to kill John before the accident, Manhattan could stop him, and since this is a forum fight where he logically wouldn't give a shit about creating holes in reality, he would.
so yeah, even the scenario where Superman is able to get away from Manhattan and kill his un-powered human form would not work.
Superman loses.
Also, if him choosing to do so destroys the universe he... Still can't do it you say? Good to know. 👆
Doc can't survive the destruction of reality, can he?
Also, Superman is far faster than Manhattan, by actual feats. 👆
He wins. Though instead of killing young Osterman, he saves him from becoming Manhattan. Because he's a nice guy. 👆
Originally posted by marwash22I was out eating dinner actually.
in case you're wondering, kids...Neme is currently watching "Watchmen", feverishly trying to find a scene where Dr. Manhattan explicitly says he cant act on what he sees.
It wouldn't be that hard to prove, considering I've done so before. It just took a quick KMC search to find it.
Originally posted by NemeBro
"Jon Osterman: This is where we hold our conversation. In it, you reveal to me that you and Dreiberg have been sleeping together.
[suddenly taken aback]
Laurie Juspeczyk: You know about me and Dan?
Jon Osterman: Not yet. But in a few moments, you're going to tell me.
Laurie Juspeczyk: If you already know the future, then why were you surprised when I left you? Or when that reporter ambushed you? Why even argue about it if you already know how this is going to end?
Jon Osterman: I have no choice. Everything is preordained... even my responses.
Laurie Juspeczyk: And you're just going through the motions? The most powerful thing in the universe is still just a puppet...
Jon Osterman: We are all puppets, Laurie. I'm just the puppet who can see the strings. "
Video doesn't work anymore, but I should be able to pretty easily find another one if you want.
Anyway, I've proved you irrevocably, 100% wrong, so I think it only fair for you to apologize for even trying to argue this with me, let alone being unjustifiably arrogant about it.
Originally posted by Psychotron
There must be some problem on your end. Like I said, watch Superman.Teleport where? Superman travels back in time, prevents the accident, and Captain Ding Dong never exists.
Supes doesn't travel back in time. He reverses time. It's not instantaneous. He's only shown doing it in a localised area i.e the earth. Manhattan would see him try it and teleport away from the area supes is reversing time.
Yes it's stated that DM can see the future but his responses as it becomes the present are preordained but that only applies to the Watchmen timeline. For the purposes of this debate you can argue either way. That it's preordained that supes reverses time to before DM was created in the accident and so can stop him but you can also say it's preordained that his actions prevent supes from reversing time and disintegrates supes
This is the scene, for those who are apparently unaware.
Originally posted by NemeBrothat's the same thing as this:
I was out eating dinner actually.It wouldn't be that hard to prove, considering I've done so before. It just took a quick KMC search to find it.
Video doesn't work anymore, but I should be able to pretty easily find another one if you want.
Anyway, I've proved you irrevocably, 100% wrong, so I think it only fair for you to apologize for even trying to argue this with me, let alone being unjustifiably arrogant about it.
Originally posted by marwash22
in the movie he never once states that he is unable to alter events, he says he doesn't do it because the events he sees are going to happen (in one reality or the other) regardless of his actions.
John is a slave to what will happen, so he CHOOSES to do nothing because it will happen one way or the other. If he does act on what he sees, it creates ripples, ripples that will destroy the world, ripples that will lead to whatever he tries to change happening anyway in another timeline.
again, not once does he ever say he CANT change what he sees. You know damn well he CAN. I'm 100% correct, and you're being a Quan, being stubborn, ignoring facts you know to be true just to argue the point because you don't want to admit you're wrong.
I'm not Robtard, I'm not gonna argue a point for 10 pages.