Rao, unarguably.
In his most recent depiction, Rao was touted as God more or less--the creator of ALL:
http://imgur.com/131aA2J
http://imgur.com/jXh9rRU
http://imgur.com/IXpE6Ur
Conversely, SG was destroyed by merely *attempting* to usurp a smidgen of control over the universe when it was young:
http://imgur.com/BdOhVsL
Originally posted by Galan007
Rao, unarguably.In his most recent depiction, Rao was touted as God more or less--the creator of ALL:
http://imgur.com/131aA2J
http://imgur.com/jXh9rRU
http://imgur.com/IXpE6Ur
Those action comics scans may as well be hyperbole though. It's only Krypton's side of the story.
Rao was on par with Cythonna, as shown in Superman the last god of krypton:
http://i.imgur.com/5V0bW32.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CbspWVB.jpg
...and she definitely isn't universal level.
Originally posted by operator616Considering the scene you posted was generated by Superman's Kryptonian computer system, by your logic I could just as easily call it hyperbole as it is only Krypton's side of the story... But that's just silly. As you know, the most recent information regarding a specific character is the most canon/reliable--and the scene I posted of Rao is over a decade MORE recent than what you posted. With that in mind, remember that all it took was a single issue to retcon Beyonder from an omnipotent being millions of times more powerful than the multiverse combined, into half of a cube being. ie. retcons are as much a part of comics as the paper they're printed on. They happen a lot.
Those action comics scans may as well be hyperbole though. It's only Krypton's side of the story.Rao was on par with Cythonna, as shown in Superman the last god of krypton:
http://i.imgur.com/5V0bW32.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CbspWVB.jpg...and she definitely isn't universal level.
Anywho, one of the passages from the scans I posted states that after Rao created ALL, he split up his infinite power in order to seed the universe with life--essentially depowering himself:
http://imgur.com/l3cZJcT
The scene you posted was obviously from some point in time after Rao had divided his infinite power and seeded the universe with life(as evident by the evolved humanoid lifeforms present in those scans.) So there is that.
Anyway, per the most recent evidence Rao=Krypton's version of THE God.
Originally posted by Galan007
Considering the scene you posted was generated by Superman's Kryptonian computer system, by your logic I could just as easily call it hyperbole as it is only Krypton's side of the story...
Except that we know in Cythonna's case, it's true, she said it herself in the issue:
http://i.imgur.com/AO4xYhz.jpg?1
"the sun god who cast me into the void, Rao himself"
This isn't a myth, if you ask me.
Rao creating the whole universe on the other hand, is, imo. It's considered as such. Rao isn't established as a creator in DC, just like in say, wonder woman v2 #139 has a greek creation myth:
http://i.imgur.com/whmkYbE.jpg
There are other creation myths based on mythologies (as im sure you know), featured on panel. And it's meant only to be isolated in that one story. Just like Rao's creation story, it doesn't go beyond that one story.
Originally posted by Galan007
Anywho, one of the passages from the scans I posted states that after Rao created ALL, he split up his infinite power in order to seed the universe with life--essentially depowering himself:
http://imgur.com/l3cZJcT
The scene you posted was obviously from some point in time after Rao had divided his infinite power and seeded the universe with life(as evident by the evolved humanoid lifeforms present in those scans.) So there is that.
Fair enough, i missed that.
Originally posted by Galan007
Anyway, per the most recent evidence Rao=Krypton's version of THE God.
Cool. And we both know that in Sandman v2 #5, it was established that any "gods" of some planet like the ones of martians, are in fact, the endless:
http://i.imgur.com/I3J29Eg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6BNqTF0.jpg
Originally posted by operator616I was mostly giving you a hard time about that. However, *technically* Rao would have already depowered himself by the time he encountered Cyth. Just saying...
Except that we know in Cythonna's case, it's true, she said it herself in the issue:http://i.imgur.com/AO4xYhz.jpg?1
"the sun god who cast me into the void, Rao himself"
Originally posted by operator616Human's see the creator as God, the Kryptonians see him as Rao. Same guy, different name... And yes, most races have a different take on the creator, but it, in all likelihood, is the same fella. I mean, if the Endless appear differently to all races, surely God does as well.
Rao creating the whole universe on the other hand, is, imo. It's considered as such. Rao isn't established as a creator in DC, just like in say, wonder woman v2 #139 has a greek creation myth:http://i.imgur.com/whmkYbE.jpg
There are other creation myths based on mythologies (as im sure you know), featured on panel. And it's meant only to be isolated in that one story. Just like Rao's creation story, it doesn't go beyond that one story.
Shame on you for not being accepting of all religions. uhuh
Originally posted by operator616That scene from issue #5(digital/HQ rips of the series are available, btw) was just how the Martians perceived their *dream* god--I know it was the dream god of Mars because of J'onn's line:
Cool. And we both know that in Sandman v2 #5, it was established that any "gods" of some planet like the ones of martians, are in fact, the endless:http://i.imgur.com/I3J29Eg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6BNqTF0.jpg
So presumably all of the Endless are perceived differently by each civilization(not unlike Galactus) but still embody the same concept within that civilization.
That said, I can't agree that Rao=a member of the Endless, because none of the Endless embody the supreme creator.
Originally posted by SupraRao was originally the supreme creator of the universe--Krypton's version of God. After creating the universe, he willingly split up his infinite power(essentially depowering himself into a lesser god) in order to seed the new universe with sentient life.
Is the the same God Krypotnians worshiped and Kal-El and descended from?
Yes, Superman is a direct descendant of Rao.
^ Hmm.....perhaps yeah, they are the same being, this reminds me of "the unnameable one" (another name for a supreme being essentially) who is the god behind all gods referenced in Martian Manhunter v1 #4:
http://i.imgur.com/dtNtou6.jpg?1
I mean, we also know that Rao literally translates to "The One God", so you think that Rao is actually the One true God (as in The Presence) just given another name? ...... i dunno, personally id have my doubts (due to some evidence pointing otherwise), but it's possible, i guess.
Regarding the endless; yeah, MM sees Dream of the endless as Lord L'Zoril, so that means that other gods must ultimately be the endless as well.
Originally posted by operator616
I mean, we also know that Rao literally translates to "The One God",
To clarify: This was actually mentioned (im not making this up), one example in the Krypton Glossary, in Krypton Chronicles #2:
I think think all races and civilizations have their own twists on what God is and/or how the universe came into being. Ultimately, however, I do believe it is the same truly omnipotent entity.
Example: the humans' dream god is Morpheus/Sandman. The Martians' dream god is Lord L'Zoril. These different races obviously have an entirely different take on the dream god, but that doesn't change the overall concept he embodies or the role he plays. He is still Dream no matter what face he wears or story he partakes in.
I am aware of that scene.
Anyway, I am not saying there isn't some disputatory evidence, but in general, I think most on-panel variations of God(those depicted as the supreme creators of ALL) can be blanketed as the same being--which makes the most sense, imo. After all, the universe didn't have multiple creators--it was ultimately one entity... That entity is simply perceived differently by nearly every race/religion/civilization in existence.
=my take.
Originally posted by Galan007
Rao was originally the supreme creator of the universe--Krypton's version of God. After creating the universe, he willingly split up his infinite power(essentially depowering himself into a lesser god) in order to seed the new universe with sentient life.Yes, Superman is a direct descendant of Rao.
What comic issues have Rao in them, I would like to read them. Is his de powered version of himself Kal-El or are all Kryptonians direct descendant of Rao?
Originally posted by Galan007
I am aware of that scene.Anyway, I am not saying there isn't some disputatory evidence, but in general, I think most on-panel variations of God(those depicted as the supreme creators of ALL) can be blanketed as the same being--which makes the most sense, imo. After all, the universe didn't have multiple creators--it was ultimately one entity... That entity is simply perceived differently by nearly every race/religion/civilization in existence.
=my take.
Your secularist opinions would actually have some value added to them were it even slightly alluded to that Rao is, in any way whatsoever, connected to the Presence or the Source, who have far more claim to being the Supreme Being of DC than localized pantheon gods like Rao.
No offense, but from where I stand, you're just reaching imo.
Originally posted by operator616
Regarding the endless; yeah, MM sees Dream of the endless as Lord L'Zoril, so that means that other gods must ultimately be the endless as well.
Originally posted by operator616
Those action comics scans may as well be hyperbole though. It's only Krypton's side of the story.Rao was on par with Cythonna, as shown in Superman the last god of krypton:
http://i.imgur.com/5V0bW32.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CbspWVB.jpg...and she definitely isn't universal level.
Damn I need to go get these comics, they look sick.
