Originally posted by operator616
Most current evidence also has Celestials getting killed by a simple enchantment.....
Originally posted by operator616
Ok, just because they're spawns of Eternity doesn't mean they're weaker.....but being figments of imagination does, no?
Fury was also a figment of Jaspers' imagination technically speaking. Still the Fury defeated him.
IIRC, Eternity was nearly killed once due to quantum destabilizations in the fabric of spacetime caused by an alien civilization. Then there is the first Dormammu showing. As bad as the Celestials' current track record is, Eternity is an even bigger jobber than they are imo.
Originally posted by Epicurus
Dark Walker was a figment of Franklin Richards' imagination. Yet that didn't stop him from overpowering Franklin and friends during their voyage across those bizarre, cartoonish 2-d realities.Fury was also a figment of Jaspers' imagination technically speaking. Still the Fury defeated him.
IIRC, Eternity was nearly killed once due to quantum destabilizations in the fabric of spacetime caused by an alien civilization. Then there is the first Dormammu showing. As bad as the Celestials' current track record is, Eternity is an even bigger jobber than they are imo.
That was quite different from Eternity's case. From what i recall, Dark Hunter was the embodiment of Franklin's grief (of losing his parents). That's why Dark Hunter was overpowering Franklin.
I also don't think that the Fury would be applicable to be called a figment of imagination of Jasper's. Although i do see your point (heck, now that i think of it, i remember Bat mite stating that he was Bruce's figment of imagination in Batman: RIP), i was mostly referring to how it was stated in context (it was clearly meant to imply that Eternity was far above the Celestials).
Originally posted by Epicurus👆 this was originally stated back in F4 #400, after Sue destroyed Exitar:
Well, at least we know for sure now that Celestials can actually resurrect/regenerate from death over time.
Also, given that Exitar is alive a scant 19 years later, Uatu(and Sue's) boasts that it'd take thousands of years for him to resurrect were complete shit. mmm
Originally posted by EpicurusYeah, I liken it to the Hyperspace weakness, myself. I mean, the scope of Sue's powers are what, city-wide on a great day? Yet that didn't stop her from destroying Exitar(after busting through his armor like tissue paper), and skewering one of the Mad Celestials with a basic construct.
That borders on weakness exploitation though, seeing how the enchantment is specifically meant to penetrate their armor, along with Thor and Apocalypse both being able to survive a strike each from that axe.
Jarnbjorn is just another silly deus ex way to kill-off a space God that possesses transinfinite levels of power.
Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, the scope of Sue's powers are what, city-wide on a great day? Yet that didn't stop her from destroying Exitar(after busting through his armor like tissue paper)
Well, the 2006 bio does clarify that she tapped into "nigh-infinite" hyperspace energies to destroy Exitar (something which was never stated on panel):
http://i.imgur.com/xTZ1YtZ.jpg?1
So we know it's much more than city-level.
Originally posted by Galan007
Also, given that Exitar is alive a scant 19 years later, Uatu(and Sue's) boasts that it'd take thousands of years for him to resurrect were complete shit. mmm
Wasn't it however stated that the Exitar that Sue destroyed had used eons gathering enough energy to destroy The One? Couldn't that also be what Uatu means with stalling the conflict?
Originally posted by operator616You're reading into that too much, me thinks. We already knew that Hyperspace=near-infinite energy(this was reiterated multiple times during the Hyperstorm fiasco.) We already knew Sue's powers come from Hyperspace. We already knew Sue was able to destroy Exitar because her Hyperspace-powa literally equates to Celestial Kryptonite.
Well, the 2006 bio does clarify that she tapped into "nigh-infinite" hyperspace energies to destroy Exitar (something which was never stated on panel):http://i.imgur.com/xTZ1YtZ.jpg?1
So we know it's much more than city-level.
...But just because the energy source from which Sue leeches her powers is nigh-infinite, doesn't mean Sue's powers themselves(what she's displayed on panel, that is) are nigh-infinite by proxy. She's a very finite character with very defined limitations--she can only tap a micro-fraction of that power.
Heck, Sue required a uni-power amp just to shield the city from a few-mile-long tidal wave:
http://imgur.com/BYp041K
http://imgur.com/L6GSalT
http://imgur.com/L55rhVh
Originally posted by UtrigitaYes, that was stated:
Wasn't it however stated that the Exitar that Sue destroyed had used eons gathering enough energy to destroy The One? Couldn't that also be what Uatu means with stalling the conflict?
I suppose that's what it could have meant... Although I wasn't really being serious, tbh. /shrug
^ Fantastic Four #550 (the story was more than one issue im just citing the issue of the scans).
http://i.imgur.com/Bi64FOT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aJvtkGl.jpg
Although it involved space-time destruction.
Originally posted by Galan007
You're reading into that too much, me thinks. We already knew that Hyperspace=near-infinite energy(this was reiterated multiple times during the Hyperstorm fiasco.) We already knew Sue's powers come from Hyperspace. We already knew Sue was able to destroy Exitar because her Hyperspace-powa literally equates to Celestial Kryptonite....But just because the energy source from which Sue leeches her powers is nigh-infinite, doesn't mean Sue's powers themselves(what she's displayed on panel, that is) are nigh-infinite by proxy. She's a very finite character with very defined limitations--she can only tap a micro-fraction of that power.
I understand that hyperspace is a nigh infinite source of energy, which is why i was under the impression that Susan somehow tapped into a huge amount of it to destroy a Celestial (which would make sense, since well, it's a celestial) -- that's what i understood from that bio.
Well, obviously Susan has her limits, i just thought that this was a kind of 1 time showing.
Originally posted by operator616I don't think so.
I understand that hyperspace is a nigh infinite source of energy, which is why i was under the impression that Susan somehow tapped into a huge amount of it to destroy a Celestial (which would make sense, since well, it's a celestial) -- that's what i understood from that bio.Well, obviously Susan has her limits, i just thought that this was a kind of 1 time showing.
Remember, it took ALL of Sue's strength/focus/intensity/concentration just to bust open a very small hole in Exitar's armor:
http://imgur.com/sE32whs
When Sue later 'killed' Exitar, she did so by blasting his brain/nerve center, which started a chain reaction that destroyed Exitar's entirety(kind of like shooting a human being in the head):
http://imgur.com/EQANky1
http://imgur.com/xRXLrbg
http://imgur.com/rsDCD9C
She didn't seem to be channeling Brobdingnagian-esque energies at the time. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
Also, given that Exitar is alive a scant 19 years later, Uatu(and Sue's) boasts that it'd take thousands of years for him to resurrect were complete shit. mmm
Originally posted by operator616
That was quite different from Eternity's case. From what i recall, Dark Hunter was the embodiment of Franklin's grief (of losing his parents). That's why Dark Hunter was overpowering Franklin.I also don't think that the Fury would be applicable to be called a figment of imagination of Jasper's. Although i do see your point (heck, now that i think of it, i remember Bat mite stating that he was Bruce's figment of imagination in Batman: RIP), i was mostly referring to how it was stated in context (it was clearly meant to imply that Eternity was far above the Celestials).
Jaspers' is a psychic reality warper, no? So basically speaking, everything he creates, whether it be a hovering cup of tea or an invincible android of mass destruction like the Fury is essentially a figment of his imagination. Which ended up killing him in their final fight. So it counts imo.
Also, as far as you using the Ashema instance to show how a godlike being is supposedly above the entities they create from their imagination, I'd like to point out that when Tiamut usurped Ashema's role as the Supreme Being of that reality, those fake teams of heroes were the ones who ultimately defeated him and helped restore her to power.
Another instance of imaginary creations outperforming their creator.🙂
Originally posted by Epicurus
Jaspers' is a psychic reality warper, no? So basically speaking, everything he creates, whether it be a hovering cup of tea or an invincible android of mass destruction like the Fury is essentially a figment of his imagination. Which ended up killing him in their final fight. So it counts imo.
The original Fury is a 238 character which traveled to 616.
238 JJ's warp was just as consuming as JJ-616's.
But 238 JJ was susceptible to the effects of his parent reality (238)
which is why he died when the literal spatial/temporal life-force of reality-238 was erased.
Evidently 616 JJ needed to be attacked directly since apparently nothing was penetrating his warp,
likewise or what his warp had engulfed.
Basically making the character unbeatable ... no worries ... enter the Plot (Fury)
The Fury ... who happens to be immune to the warp, with already inherent uber
durability, packing an arm canon that can fry just about anything, then coupled
with the most effective/efficient adaptation capabilities we've ever seen in Marvel.
That said, had the fight between 616 JJ and the Fury lasted a little longer, Jaspers wins.
As mighty as it was, the Fury was taxed after battling "God" across universeS,
while JJ was in optimal conditions until the un-space dance came into play.
