Arwen VS Black Widow

Started by ares8343 pages

Seems like you are making a lot of assumptions in this thread.

Such as?

Please enlighten me. I'm open to changing my mind

Originally posted by Firefly218
and we can assume had extensive h2h training.

Right here.

Beyond that you are assuming that she is physically beyond BW merely because she is an elf.

That's not assumption, that's fact. Elves are naturally superior to humans.

It doesn't make sense to me that Elronds daughter wouldn't be trained.

BTW, black widow has faced no creature as powerful as the elf. Her strongest foe so far has been hawkeye without his arrows.

Originally posted by Firefly218
That's not assumption, that's fact. Elves are naturally superior to humans.

To normal humans sure... Unfortunately, Black Widow is most certainly not normal.

Originally posted by Firefly218
It doesn't make sense to me that Elronds daughter wouldn't be trained.

Perhaps. She may be trained, heck I'd say she likely is. However, there is no reason to assume she is as well trained as BW.

Originally posted by Firefly218
BTW, black widow has faced no creature as powerful as the elf. Her strongest foe so far has been hawkeye without his arrows.

And Arwen has never faced anyone in combat.

BW is the epitome of a human in terms of ability, but is still a human ~ and therefore physically inferior to Arwen.

Arwen doesn't have to be as well trained as BW to win, she has to have basic fighting skill. Arwen has magic and physical superiority on her side. Also, if Arwen can summon the power of her people against the Nazgul, then why can't she do the same versus BW.

I understand Arwen doesn't have combat feats, but that's not my point. Your main argument has to do with black widows skill, I am attacking that argument by mentioning she hasn't fought anyone as physically capable as an elf.

Guns = dead elf.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Guns = dead elf.

I agree, with guns BW wins. This fight should be h2h

Originally posted by Firefly218
BW is the epitome of a human in terms of ability, but is still a human ~ and therefore physically inferior to Arwen.

LotR isn't like Eragon. Just because elves are generally better doesn't mean they always are. Guys like Aragorn and Boromir are certainly superior combatants than your average elf.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Arwen doesn't have to be as well trained as BW to win, she has to have basic fighting skill. Arwen has magic and physical superiority on her side. Also, if Arwen can summon the power of her people against the Nazgul, then why can't she do the same versus BW.

Because she doesn't have that specific river here. Plus it takes several seconds to use said ability.

Originally posted by Firefly218
I understand Arwen doesn't have combat feats, but that's not my point. Your main argument has to do with black widows skill, I am attacking that argument by mentioning she hasn't fought anyone as physically capable as an elf.

I'd say Hawkeye is and the Chitauri are. Regardless, that's all more or less irrelevant because she has shown her extreme level of skill.

Originally posted by Firefly218
I agree, with guns BW wins. This fight should be h2h

Than why do you keep mentioning magic?

Aragorn and Boromir can be more skilled than the average elf, but definitely not physically superior. This is simply a biological thing, humans are not biologically capable of physiological superiority over elves. BTW, Arwen is not your average elf.

I think it's a safe assumption that she has many other applications of her magic. Magic WILL definitely help her if she's fighting black widow.

BW is skilled, but not enough to overcome her physiological deficiencies in relevance to Arwen

Originally posted by Silent Master
Than why do you keep mentioning magic?

Because magic is an ability not a tangible weapon. Magic is a natural ability for Arwen, just like punching and kicking are for BW

Originally posted by Firefly218
Aragorn and Boromir can be more skilled than the average elf, but definitely not physically superior. This is simply a biological thing, humans are not biologically capable of physiological superiority over elves.

Where is this stated?

Originally posted by Firefly218
I think it's a safe assumption that she has many other applications of her magic. Magic WILL definitely help her if she's fighting black widow.

Where has she demonstrated any magic that will be helpful in a fight?

Originally posted by Firefly218
BW is skilled, but not enough to overcome her physiological deficiencies in relevance to Arwen

What "physiological deficiencies" are you taking about and where can I see them?

I'm done indulging you; it's time to prove your claims.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Because magic is an ability not a tangible weapon. Magic is a natural ability for Arwen, just like punching and kicking are for BW

You're aware that HTH stands for hand to hand, correct?

Not that it really matters, as the OP didn't state this was HTH only, which means that BW has her guns.

Elves being physically superior to humans is a common fact.

When has BW demonstrated feats against someone stronger, faster, more agile and more durable then her? I doubt she would display the same dominance.

Come back with a real argument

Arwen is way more attractive.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're aware that HTH stands for hand to hand, correct?

Not that it really matters, as the OP didn't state this was HTH only, which means that BW has her guns.

So does h2h also mean that neither characters can use there feet?

h2h means that both characters can only use natural abilities, therefore BW can't use her guns.

Originally posted by Firefly218
You cannot properly define "standard equipment" without OP specifications. BW has used many different weapons.

^Therefore, it is automatically assumed that neither character has any equipment. Which forces this to be hth

Originally posted by Firefly218
Elves being physically superior to humans is a common fact.

Where is it stated in the movies then?

But heck, it's not even true in the books. Certain men like Turin are described as being stronger and as agile as any elf.

Originally posted by Firefly218
When has BW demonstrated feats against someone stronger, faster, more agile and more durable then her?

When has Arwen demonstrated feats at all?

Originally posted by Firefly218
Come back with a real argument

I'm still waiting for proof for your claims.

Originally posted by Firefly218
So does h2h also mean that neither characters can use there feet?

h2h means that both characters can only use natural abilities, therefore BW can't use her guns.

Hand-to-hand is a specific term, Hand-to-hand combat (sometimes abbreviated as HTH or H2H) is a lethal or nonlethal physical confrontation between two or more persons at very short range (grappling distance) that does not involve the use of firearms or other distance weapons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_to_hand_combat

Originally posted by ares834
"If I can cross the river, the power of my people can protect him." She may have triggered the defense but it isn't her power.
What a stupid interpretation of that scene, lol.