Originally posted by NemeBro
Well no, they like a lot of different anime, just not Naruto or Bleach and maybe a few others.
That's... kinda my point. They wank the f**k out of One Piece while actively criticising its mainstream counterparts, all of which are featured in this thread. It essentially destroys their credibility.
Originally posted by Sacred 117
That's... kinda my point. They wank the f**k out of One Piece while actively criticising its mainstream counterparts, all of which are featured in this thread. It essentially destroys their credibility.
One Piece is better than Naruto or Bleach though imo. By quite a margin.
It shows a clear bias for one series over others that makes them look like wankers. Now whether or not this clouds their judgement on feats I couldn't say but merely glancing at both pages seems to reflect a OP favoritism.
Not that OP isn't deserving of such love but it is overrated IMO. All of the Big Three are though.
Originally posted by Nephthys
One Piece is better than Naruto or Bleach though imo. By quite a margin.
IMO, OP *was* better. The characterization has fallen off post skip, and it's never been great at pacing.
Naruto is underrated writing wise. It has consistent themes, foreshadows it's events better than most give it credit for, while still manages some interesting twists and events. It's pacing is muuuuch better. It's plot can be a bit up and down, but it's down parts don't last nearly as long. And most importantly, character development wise, it's easily the best, Naruto has steadily grown in both obvious and non-obvious ways and he's changed a lot over time.
Originally posted by Bentley
Naruto writing is average at best.But what's more weird is that I don't really like many Naruto battles despite the characters having interesting abilities. It's as if they were botched on propose.
I find Naruto writing is up and down, but certainly not 'average'.
And I do like it's battles better than OP's.
Originally posted by Q99
It has consistent themes,
Remember when one of the themes was hard work paying off?
The theme was always sort of sketchy because the protagonist was pretty much handed the power to be relevant (The Kyuubi and of course being an Uzumaki, the latter arguably killed that theme alone), but constant stressing of Naruto being the chosen one and hard-working but relatively untalented characters like Rock Lee or Sakura being left to the dust have made the theme obsolete.
foreshadows it's events better than most give it credit for,
Like what?
For everything well-foreshadowed, we can name an asspull.
Like Sasuke snake no jutsuing away from a nuclear explosion (Despite being low on chakra). Or how about Izanami? Or Minato knowing Sage Mode? Or Pain resurrecting all of Konoha because "**** consequences"?
while still manages some interesting twists and events.
Subjective.
It's pacing is muuuuch better.
As the ending fatigue of current Naruto shows.
It's plot can be a bit up and down, but it's down parts don't last nearly as long.
It's been down for most of the Great Shinobi War.
And most importantly, character development wise, it's easily the best, Naruto has steadily grown in both obvious and non-obvious ways and he's changed a lot over time.
Naruto's development has been all right, but his arc doesn't compare to Usopp's, and who else has developed in a believable or satisfying way? Sasuke? He couldn't decide whether or not he was a murdering psycho for over a hundred chapters before settling on "not", and when he did get over his mental problems it was so quick as to be unbelievable. Sakura? She is still every bit the faux-action girl she always has been (Lawl just leave it up to Naruto). Kakashi? While admittedly not a poor character, he is a static one, arguably due to having developed in the past.
Do I think One Piece is better? Overall, yeah, but you're right in that it's dropped significantly since the time skip. I haven't read either in like two months or more.
Neither are even close to the best manga I've ever read (That would be Berserk), and overall, yeah, they're relatively "average".
Originally posted by BentleyI used to like Naruto battles.
Naruto writing is average at best.But what's more weird is that I don't really like many Naruto battles despite the characters having interesting abilities. It's as if they were botched on propose.
Now it has turned into a decidedly inferior artist to Toriyama trying to replicate DBZ fights.
Originally posted by Q99
I find Naruto writing is up and down, but certainly not 'average'.
The writing has some strong points, but I think they do not outweight the low ones enough to go beyond average. I'll gladly admit that Naruto aims higher than, let's say DBZ, when it comes to emotion and characterization; but that ambition is met with mixed results, it's hardly one of the greatest character driven mangas out there.
Originally posted by Q99
And I do like it's battles better than OP's.
They are very different styles, so you're free to like one better than the other. For me the action and humor blend of One Piece is a welcomed change of pace from your average mindless combat, I also happen to think there is a lot more action besides fighting in OP which makes everything feel more dynamic. But it's fair to say there are pretty poor battles in One Piece, I think that whenever Zoro fights the results are more or less the same, it's rather formulaic.
Naruto has a few exceptional battles, some average ones and a little too many battles that are supposed to have a final twist... That often disrupts the flow of the combat entirely. Somehow they also end up being pretty loopsided in several instances.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Remember when one of the themes was hard work paying off?The theme was always sort of sketchy because the protagonist was pretty much handed the power to be relevant (The Kyuubi and of course being an Uzumaki, the latter arguably killed that theme alone), but constant stressing of Naruto being the chosen one and hard-working but relatively untalented characters like Rock Lee or Sakura being left to the dust have made the theme obsolete.
Has gradually turned into those who persevere win in the end. The conversation between Naruto and Obito clearly shows that Kishimoto has not forgotten about his idea of "there is no easy way in life" established way back in chapter 2. Naruto becoming a god among men was also foreshadowed forever ago and he had to work to become as strong as he did.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Like what?For everything well-foreshadowed, we can name an asspull.
Like Sasuke snake no jutsuing away from a nuclear explosion (Despite being low on chakra).
Summoning was established as something Sasuke could do. Less of an asspull and more horrendously sloppy execution.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Or how about Izanami? Or Minato knowing Sage Mode?
These are indeed asspulls. The latter less of one since Sage Mode was established unlike the Gears Izanami.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Or Pain resurrecting all of Konoha because "**** consequences"?
This act was foreshadowing Tobi's and Madara's original plan. This bit of foreshadowing just happened to completely horrible.
Originally posted by NemeBro
As the ending fatigue of current Naruto shows.
Know what else has ending fatigue? War. O:
Originally posted by NemeBro
It's been down for most of the Great Shinobi War.
I have enjoyed it quite a lot actually.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Naruto's development has been all right, but his arc doesn't compare to Usopp's, and who else has developed in a believable or satisfying way?
Why pick Usopp, the character who has regressed to being a coward and is virtually the same guy he was in Alabasta?
Originally posted by NemeBro
Sasuke? He couldn't decide whether or not he was a murdering psycho for over a hundred chapters before settling on "not", and when he did get over his mental problems it was so quick as to be unbelievable.
Good thing Sasuke is not cured of his mental problems since Kishimoto is blatantly showing that Sasuke is still messed up in the head in subtle ways.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Sakura? She is still every bit the faux-action girl she always has been (Lawl just leave it up to Naruto).
Obviously wrong since she has participated in battles and is more of an actual help to her allies than Robin and arguably Nami.
Only picked yours apart cause you did the same to Q99. 313
Ussop is the most prominent fake coward I've ever seen in fiction. He's always been actually quite damn brave. But he's defined by his lies, so he must seem like a coward because he is brave. With Sogeking he learned to put a brave face, but he's actually just lying in a level further than his regular lie.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Has gradually turned into those who persevere win in the end. The conversation between Naruto and Obito clearly shows that Kishimoto has not forgotten about his idea of "there is no easy way in life" established way back in chapter 2. Naruto becoming a god among men was also foreshadowed forever ago and he had to work to become as strong as he did.
This doesn't really detract from the fact that the only reason Naruto "persevering" holds any weight is because the cards were stacked heavily in his favor.
Also, Naruto learned Sage Mode easily, and he conquered his Biju also pretty easily. He hasn't had to work nearly as hard as, say, Lee. Or Luffy. 👆
Summoning was established as something Sasuke could do. Less of an asspull and more horrendously sloppy execution.
Performing several taxing jutsu in a few seconds was established as something Sasuke could do?
These are indeed asspulls. The latter less of one since Sage Mode was established unlikethe GearsIzanami.
Sage Mode was established. But what makes it an asspull is that Minato has had many opportunities to use it where it would have come in handy, particularly when Tobi kidnapped his son and didn't give a **** about anything.
This act was foreshadowing Tobi's and Madara's original plan. This bit of foreshadowing just happened to completely horrible.
That it foreshadowed Tobi and Madara's plan makes it no less of an asspull though. It was a cheap device to make the consequences of the war considerably less than they could have been.
Know what else has ending fatigue? War. O:
The Marineford arc didn't suffer from it. 👆
I have enjoyed it quite a lot actually.
Yeah but you're the same guy who prefers Naruto over Berserk. Your taste is in question.
Why pick Usopp, the character who has regressed to being a coward and is virtually the same guy he was in Alabasta?
Bentley already covered this sufficiently well, but to add to it, Usopp still gets scared, yes. But he also manages to power through his fear to do heroic manly shit. That's called courage.
Also, he has gotten over his feelings of inferiority among his crew. 👆
Good thing Sasuke is not cured of his mental problems since Kishimoto is blatantly showing that Sasuke is still messed up in the head in subtle ways.
This might be due to me not reading the manga for two months, but what ways are those?
Obviously wrong since she has participated in battles and is more of an actual help to her allies than Robin and arguably Nami.
lol?
Robin is at worst the fifth strongest member of the crew (She contests fourth with Franky), and has participated greatly in battles she's been present for (Granted, their foes have been for the most part so weak it doesn't really matter). Nami as well, with her clima tact she has more AOE crowd control than maybe anyone in the crew.
But that doesn't really change that for the most part Sakura hasn't ****ing gone anywhere. She's like "im gonna be straung to walk alongside you lol", then Sasuke nearly kills her and she outright says she'll leave it to the strong manly men. Then she actually gets a cool powerup, and starts to crush some mooks before, oh right, she has to be saved by Sasuke and Naruto, lol.
She's still just as much in their shadow despite any alleged hard work. Admittedly this isn't totally her fault. As I've said, due to Kishi poorly handling his themes Sasuke and Naruto have been handed their power on a silver platter. Sakura wasn't.
Only picked yours apart cause you did the same to Q99. 313
Don't pick fights you can't win.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Nami as well, with her clima tact she has more AOE crowd control than maybe anyone in the crew.
Also the crew literally couldn't function without Nami since they need her skills to navigate around the super dangerous waters of the Grand Line and whatever. She's an invaluable crew member.